Recent Topics

Ads

[Slayer] Armor Advice

Discuss Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, and Runepriest.
Forum rules
Before posting in this forum, please read the Terms of Use.

Optional: Start your topic title with your class in brackets (e.g., [Shaman]). It helps others find your post faster.
User avatar
Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: [Slayer] Armor Advice

Post#11 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:10 am

Aehnur wrote:Hello guys, i'm currently leveling my slayer (cr37). I'm full Ruin and doing epic quests. Wich of those weapons would you recommand ?
I was also checking jewelery : would you consider The Blood-soaked Sigils and Great Oathstones good options ? Or is aa haste garbage when dual-wielding ?
In terms of epic quest weapons:
1h) Wrath - offhand AP battery.
2h) Red Carnage.

Make sure to get the SC weapons asap, the first tier of them is enough until you get the influence weapon with the crit on it.
If you get the gutslime weapon DON'T use it in your mainhand, the speed on it is garbage - use it in your offhand, swap Wrath out if you don't have the sustain (= group; pocketheals/guardbot) to keep the procs rolling in.

In terms of jewelries, everything with wounds/str does the trick - you can, if you roam and in general, use the Impervious set as a placeholder.
You shouldn't use the AA haste set as long you don't have access to conq shoulders, PFM is enough to have the AA roughly coincide with your gcds ~ work on your wounds/str stack until you get into range of BiS gear.
nebelwerfer wrote:I reckon Wild gambit is a great tradeoff but you need good rage management since toughness is the only defence you got when red.

And for the epic weapons and token unlocks i remember i used red carnage(emp quest 2h mace with crit proc) with the two rings that give a lot of wounds+oathstones.
Tactics were push for more(haste) and +fierce might(more crit dmg, works best with more wounds).
Idk if the weapon procc stacks with fierce might but it should afaik. I had some good times with that. Just my 2c, i am no Expert
I'd normally recommend to use Wild Gambit over Brute Force, but given that the mitigation is atm a bit ... wonky so that the WS component is not as imporant (I am still actively testing this whole conundrum, so I might get back to this later on), Brute Force might be more valuable ~ if not only for the strikethrough.
As to the toughness component (and by extension rage management):
It is beyond neglible - Slayers aren't a class that really gets any good returns from toughness, even with the overhaul (and current wonky mitigation) in place, the only exception <maybe> being (solo)roam, but then again ... if you roam on a Slayer you are essentially wasting your time (see my first post in this thread as to why that is, alternatively apply common sense and some basic math).

Note: Your general goal is to get as much strength as possible to drop either one, or both of these stat related tactics to get access to the really juicy specs, however keep in mind that you won't be able to drop both on RoR - unlike on the live servers.

FM is only feasible if you - as you've scratched at - sport enough wounds to increase the uptime on it, and it is generally useless in engagements in which you are nonstop topped off. Back on live you would essentially tell your healers to get off their schtick; to let you sit at a comfy 70% HP, or less depending on how comfortable/confident they are in doing so.
PFM is a tactic you only swap out if you go for the full-on bomb approach, but it is your best friend in everything ST related, here keep in mind that Slayers have access to the best of both worlds at the same time ~ even though it requires BiS gear, so until you get to the real shinies don't gimp yourself and dedicate your efforts to properly perform your respective role.

The procs that tamper with stats generally - judging by the tests I ran - don't stack with other buffs (tactics, abilities, yadayada), the only exception to this are morales. That means, your critdamage is mainly impacted by FM if you run it whilst sporting Red Carnage while the critchance supercedes the Kotbs and SW buff, the IB critbuff however supercedes the Red Carnage proc. Fear not though, you don't lose anything in any case - you'll still increase the uptime on the critdamage and the critchance.

Abbd.: As to Grock:
Grock wrote: I gave a suggestion on how to survive in current T4 PUG environment, nothing more.
You lost it with that, if not before with your horrible presentation - I've read your posts, don't you worry. You might wanna re-read them yourself, alongside the things you throw about in /sc, and other chats - let alone other topics - to see why I have shut you down like that.

If you want to make a point go ahead and enterain or enlighten me by pointing out what I've got wrong, otherwise bugger off (= quit giving shite advice to new midgets that'll have them hate, or consider the class lackluster just as much as you do) and work on your general unterstanding of mechanics and the math involved.

Ads
User avatar
Grock
Posts: 918

Re: [Slayer] Armor Advice

Post#12 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:43 am

Aehnur wrote:Hello guys, i'm currently leveling my slayer (cr37). I'm full Ruin and doing epic quests. Wich of those weapons would you recommand ?
I was also checking jewelery : would you consider The Blood-soaked Sigils and Great Oathstones good options ? Or is aa haste garbage when dual-wielding ?
If you want most viable option in current meta get 1h ones for procs, don't remember which one from which quest, but damage procs and AP proc are good (tho I personally took 2h weapons cuz they look cool and i wasn't bothered being competitive back then :))

Regarding accessory sets - for starters you can use Winds Impervious set, it gives very high resistances and extra armor bonus, but you'll have to manage your Rage to keep these benefits. Though IMO thats what you should focus on anyway if you don't have a premade as going Berserk without dedicated group is usually a suicide, either by burst or by DoTs.
Slayer is very team-dependant and doesn't work that well with pickup groups/warbands, so in my opinion you need to focus more on defence and careful play, even if cool dudes on forums will tell you to softcap strength :)

(do some scenarios, even solo! conqueror emblems can be exchanged for officer emblems at a rate of 1 for 5, you can get few pieces of Merc very quickly even if you lose scenarios and merc is a decent set and you can mix it with ruin for double strength bonus : x3 ruin x2 merc or vice versa)

Continuing about accessory...
Both Sigils and Oathstones are viable, but Oathstones require some high end gear to get maximum effect of that AA haste

Sigils are good for stacking high parry, which is useful both in massive clashes with enemy tanks/mdps and in duels vs other mdps(especially with Riposte tactic), but i don't think its worth focusing before you can get more parry accessories and more RR skills.
Later you can get Brawler/Assailant/Genesis accessories (there also was "horned rat ring" with 3% parry, you get it in some skaven caverns, but i think that questline is no longer active)

As for Oathstones and AA haste...
I haven't done any testing myself and haven't found any formulas yet, but based on what Darosh(that salty dude above me) said in another thread AA haste works in a wonky way...
TL;DR: The more you get the better - 50% haste is 100% more dps, 80% haste is 500% more dps
Spoiler:
Apparently unlike all other games Attack Haste in WAR simply cuts attack cooldown by the % you have. So 50% aa haste from Push for More is actually 50% shorter aa cooldown > 100% increase in number of attacks you do. And because it stacks additively - the more of it you get - the more you gain.
If you stack max possible 80% aa haste that is five times shorter attack cooldown. Add Slayer's Rage on top of that and you an get crazy AA dps on this class. But that requires high end gear - Conqueror and Overlord(or Imperator? I dont remember)
Dual-wielding is better than 2h basically in every way. More hits, higher dps, higher potential damage spike and also +10% free parry. If you want to stack AA Haste in the future DW is the way to go.
The way it works is with every main-hand hit you get about 50%% chance for off-hand hit, which deals roughly the same damage. Main hand gains 10% of strength/meleepower as damage bonus, off-hand gains 9%, of course that is multiplied by weapon speed (off-hand hits use main-hand speed in terms of damage calculations)
As main hand you can use faster weapon for more consistent dps and procs, or slower weapon like Gutslime for some funny bursty dps spikes :twisted:

Hope that was more helpful than confusing :lol:

Spoiler:
Darosh wrote:
Grock wrote: I gave a suggestion on how to survive in current T4 PUG environment, nothing more.
You lost it with that, if not before with your horrible presentation - I've read your posts, don't you worry. You might wanna re-read them yourself, alongside the things you throw about in /sc, and other chats - let alone other topics - to see why I have shut you down like that.

If you want to make a point go ahead and enterain or enlighten me by pointing out what I've got wrong, otherwise bugger off (= quit giving shite advice to new midgets that'll have them hate, or consider the class lackluster just as much as you do) and work on your general unterstanding of mechanics and the math involved.
You seem to be really mad at me for some reason and you still havent said who you are in game, coincidence? :lol:

Why are you telling me to point out what you've got wrong? I'm not trying to prove anything here, it wasn't me who started this argument. I wasn't even disagreeing with your original post, just pointed out that OP wanted help with low tier sets. Then you crashed in and wrote a huge wall of nonsense, missing my main point just like you did with OP question until i corrected you :P

You really seem to have troubles keeping up with the flow :lol:

I'm not gonna discuss anything with you unless you change your attitude.
Slayer class is obviously underperforming outside of two specific niches and that is obvious to anyone who plays the class, and calling me out on forums just cuz i hurt your feelings in game is not helping anyone.
Orkni 85+ (in-game Grock is not me...)
Image

User avatar
Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: [Slayer] Armor Advice

Post#13 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:31 am

Grock wrote: [...]
As main hand you can use faster weapon for more consistent dps and procs, or slower weapon like Gutslime for some funny bursty dps spikes :twisted:
[...]
There is alot to pick out, but that one stands out ~ I could go ahead and elaborate, but I see no point in that.
Spoiler:
Grock wrote:
Darosh wrote:
Grock wrote: I gave a suggestion on how to survive in current T4 PUG environment, nothing more.
You lost it with that, if not before with your horrible presentation - I've read your posts, don't you worry. You might wanna re-read them yourself, alongside the things you throw about in /sc, and other chats - let alone other topics - to see why I have shut you down like that.

If you want to make a point go ahead and enterain or enlighten me by pointing out what I've got wrong, otherwise bugger off (= quit giving shite advice to new midgets that'll have them hate, or consider the class lackluster just as much as you do) and work on your general unterstanding of mechanics and the math involved.
You seem to be really mad at me for some reason and you still havent said who you are in game, coincidence? :lol:

Why are you telling me to point out what you've got wrong? I'm not trying to prove anything here, it wasn't me who started this argument. I wasn't even disagreeing with your original post, just pointed out that OP wanted help with low tier sets. Then you crashed in and wrote a huge wall of nonsense, missing my main point just like you did with OP question until i corrected you :P

You really seem to have troubles keeping up with the flow :lol:

I'm not gonna discuss anything with you unless you change your attitude.
Slayer class is obviously underperforming outside of two specific niches and that is obvious to anyone who plays the class, and calling me out on forums just cuz i hurt your feelings in game is not helping anyone.
If you knew who I was it'd spoil the fun. Be assured I am normally the last one to pick apart stuff in that manner, let alone refer on the forums to things that happen ingame; i.e. to go by the tags in a signature - as I consider these forums a venue to ask for/offer advice that helps improving or go about submitting feedback/participate in abstract discussions and alike - and to engage in these kind of brawls. But in your case I couldn't help it ~

There is no point in adding insult to injury, so I wish you the best of luck in your endeavours on an "underperforming" class.

User avatar
nebelwerfer
Posts: 683

Re: [Slayer] Armor Advice

Post#14 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:39 pm

Darosh care to explain or link AS to why toughness has an bad mitigation for slayer and chop compared to other classes? Who are you comparing with and why is it so. Please keep it simple tyvm in advance

User avatar
Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: [Slayer] Armor Advice

Post#15 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:33 pm

nebelwerfer wrote:Darosh care to explain or link AS to why toughness has an bad mitigation for slayer and chop compared to other classes? Who are you comparing with and why is it so. Please keep it simple tyvm in advance
Keeping it simple:
Spoiler:
The sacrifice in stats makes for an abysmal tradeoff, so does the debuff situation, the rather horrible accessibility on both classes and the current implementation of the career mechanic; let alone the general lack of proper mitigation (armor/resis).
You are generally better off stacking wounds (e.g. no amount of mitigation can help you survive assists/bombing if your healers don't have time to get their heals off; it doesn't mess with your pewpew as much, given the synergy with FM; ...) and avoidance (e.g. completly negating damage > mitigating damage, additionally avoiding the application of statuseffects [HDs, and all that - but primarily potent dots;~] generally yields better returns; synergize well with pocket IBs ~ luv me dat parrybuff; coefficients* yadayada; ...).
Given how disgustingly low the Slayer base initative is (148, lv40), and how scarcely you have access to that stat as well, it is pretty much in the same category - though, in my book initative > toughness.
Flat reductions of your chance to be crit are pretty worthless, unless you get your initative up to levels (+350, [Abbd.:] +300 if you have a RP/IB tagging along, which you should have *cough*]) that counteract debuffs (~50-120,iirc), given initiative scales exponentially (e.g. -10%ish and more ctbc looks good on paper, but is pretty much void postdebuff if your initiative is dropped below ~200 [=~18.1%, avg. initiative levels with conq], as your ctbc then sits at +40% [=~90 initiative] anyways, without any additional debuffs [e.g. BG] and your attackers critchance in play).
Abbd.: Note: The ctbc/crit situation is alot more nasty on a Choppa than it is on a Slayer, for obvious reasons - in this case I'd say its toughness > initiative, with wounds still beating both in terms of returns.

Keep in mind every investment into other stats pretty much locks you into both stat-related tactics ~ which is okay-ish at low RR/gearlevels, but it'll invetiably lock you out off the most juicy specs accessible at RR60+***; your best bet is forming a group and working out a proper composition, or if you choose to lonewolf it to swap to a class suited for it.
There is a reason there was the saying "A slayer is only as good as his group." back on live (don't be deceived by footage of RR100 Slayers/Choppas going on solo killing sprees), it is incredible easy to gimp yourself on this class ~ either by trying to ducttape weakspots that you simply cannot ducttape (alone) in a sufficient manner or by miserably failing to position yourself properly.
Note: In any case I'd suggest to not invest RR into plain stats, unless its spare points (here, don't forget that you want to grab atleast RD[1], too) and even then they should go into wounds.

Abbd.: Then again, atm there is something really funky going on with the mitigation in general (since about 3-4 patches).
Abbd.:
** Wounds covers all engagements and damage sources, morales included - initative looks fancy, but won't yield good returns against compositions that don't sport initative debuffs.
*** If you divert from strength softcap - or can afford it otherwise - go wounds. You won't have as much trouble softcapping strength with proper gear ~
TLDR: It boils down to these questions:
What allows you to survive more gcds (and your healer to stabilize you)?
What do you have to sacrifice for it (how does your access to the stats look like, including prominent debuffs/buffs), how do the tradeoffs look like?
What kind of synergies are available to you?
What kind of damage (physical, magical, morales) is covered by the various stats, what are the most predominant types* of damage (dots, styles, casts, channels)?
Spoiler:
Wounds > else, in terms of plain stats (gear/talisman) and mitigation. Keep in mind how much burst can be delivered in one timestamp (**and that morales don't give a damn about your mitigation). The mitigation levels you (can) reach with a toughness stack won't help you, especially if you are sitting at 5-6k (4-5k post wounds debuff) HP and at virtually zero armor/resis ~ if you plan to actually perform your role as a dps; premature or constant ragedumping is a pug habit (= consider yourself to be a midget-catherder, with the rage being your cat ~ losing rage means you lose your dps and access to most of your utilities).
TL-TLDR:
My advice:
1.) Buy two sets of talismans, toughness and wounds ~ get matching gear.
2.) Form a group.
3.) Run both stats individually.
4.) See what aids your healers more in their struggle to keep you alive.
5.) Parse your dps.
6.) Make a choice.


E: Words and stuff(*).

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest