POLL - RVR - What would make you play more?

[nebelwerfer]

Fun fights tonight with cmtk, phalanx, tup and pug wb's. THAT is what Gets me into the lakes, moving BT event to wednesday has been a good experience for me so far! Thx all

[Gerv]

An increase in the visible progression towards conqourer gear for players outside the premade guild warbands and small 6 man groups who consistently finish top of zone contribution. To enable lesser players to enjoy a sense of progression. Whether this is through increased conq medallion rewards for zone and keep bag rewards, slightly reducing cost of gear or enabling an up conversion, even at 10 to 1 ratio, of officer medallions to conqueror to one, compensate for solider medallions rewarded in RvR and two enable less fortunate players the ability to earn progression.

When current end gear is more obtainable, to a greater percentage of the population with the lower tier system in place, this will reduce the burnout of players, facilitate the leveling of new alts and friends with the increased renown in t2/3 RvR and increased exp from t2/3 sc quests and continue to support a healthy retention of casual and veteran players alike. Similar to the environment experienced in t3.

[venrik]

Voted other.

I'd play more if the game was being developed more in line with the game I used to play. That doesn't mean I think the game didn't need changes and balancing, because it clearly always did. I just mean, from my own personal view, I would rather have seen more pushing towards a working game that was more akin to the game I played for 5 years, and then see work on the balancing aspect of it/improvements/tweaks etc. This isn't a criticism of the path the devs have taken, just my own view on what would have made me play more. The peeps working on this have done an amazing job, and it really is appreciated. The fact I can log in and still have fun is a blessing. Cheers!

[Darosh]

E: Voted other.

Full transparency as it comes to contribution - even though it is (or should be) at this point abundantly obvious as to how it works -, having something to point at or look up screws alot with the general grumpyness at display (from all sides involved) as it comes to lootroll powered gear distribution.

It'd basically play along the same angle others have taken:
Making the progression more tangible for the p(ug)layerbase, by reducing atleast the perceived RNG (and unfairness, epeen...yadayada) from the lootrolls.

Spoiler:

Alternatively a 'bad-luck' protection might be a fancy way to go about the RNG:
If people participate in x zoneflips, reach the top25 and yet get continuously **** over by RNGesus alone, they really start to hate life.
So, something like a credit (either for each type of bag and based on initial ranking [pre-rngroll] or just some static) that builds up to a certain point and counteracts RNG (but that of course diminishes over time, based on a set of conditions; e.g.: inactivity, succesful lootroll, yadayada) might be a good approach.

E.g.: (Note: Numbers are meh, you get the point.)
A1) A player makes it into the top25 in 50 zoneflips but doesn't get a single bag (matching his initial/average ranking), he'll receive a bonus to all bags for one roll, with: green>blue>purple>gold, for the 51st lootroll he participates in.
B1) A player makes it into the top15 in 50 zoneflips but doesn't get a single bag (matching his initial/average ranking), he'll receive a bonus to all bags for one roll, with: blue>green>purple>gold, for the 51st lootroll he participates in.
C1) A player makes it into the top10 in 50 zoneflips, but doesn't get a single bag (matching his initial/average ranking), he'll receive a bonus to all bags for one roll, with: purple>green>blue>gold / purple>blue>green>gold, for the 51st lootroll he participates in.
D1) A player makes it into the top5 in 50 zoneflips, but doesn't get a single bag (matching his initial/average ranking), he'll receive a bonus to all bags for one roll, with: gold>green>blue>purple / gold>purple>blue>green, for the 51st lootroll he participates in.
A2) A player makes it into the top25 in 50 zoneflips, but doesn't get a single bag, he'll receive a +500 rollbonus (or respective average based on rankings) for the 51st lootroll.
E) Upon receiving a lootbag the credit resets.

One could design it in a way that allows players to perceive progression or atleast have a 'good feeling' about it, as they know they will invetiably get a lootbag after a 'set' amount of time via their preferred (<< still can't wrap my head around that) way of acquisition, and yet avoid giving out free stuff - nothing in regards to the actual timesink/effort that is required to acquire BiS gear would change.
It might require an overhaul to the opt-in/out system (e.g.: allow opting in/out outside of keep areas).

Furthermore, to account for the latter, one could think about a lockout system for players that are already completly decked out,; i.e.: introduction of gearscore that is not! publicly visible (= not a metric to be abused for epeen cirlejerks and the exclusion of new players) and only relevant for devs ( = that could be used for matchmaking and so on, later down the road), or that score bag after bag; i.e.: daily/weekly loot lockouts (e.g.: 5 gold, 10 purple, 15 blue, 20 green per week per character).
That, too, would allow the devs to control the distribution of loot a bit better, and help with the general perception issues aswell as the community infighting (= pugVSguildVS6manVSroamer).

Abbd.: TLDR: Its no fun to play with/against people whose entire playtime consist of moaning about gear or gear acquisition; who blame losses on gear, engage in infighting and cirlejerks or ragequit based on lootrolls.

[th3gatekeeper]

An increase in the visible progression towards conqourer gear for players outside the premade guild warbands and small 6 man groups who consistently finish top of zone contribution. To enable lesser players to enjoy a sense of progression. Whether this is through increased conq medallion rewards for zone and keep bag rewards, slightly reducing cost of gear or enabling an up conversion, even at 10 to 1 ratio, of officer medallions to conqueror to one, compensate for solider medallions rewarded in RvR and two enable less fortunate players the ability to earn progression.

When current end gear is more obtainable, to a greater percentage of the population with the lower tier system in place, this will reduce the burnout of players, facilitate the leveling of new alts and friends with the increased renown in t2/3 RvR and increased exp from t2/3 sc quests and continue to support a healthy retention of casual and veteran players alike. Similar to the environment experienced in t3.

This is very well written and how I feel as well. However as I wrote in my previous posts, gear progression is just one reason I feel burnt, or lack of it. The other big one is lack of choice and customization... I have only one set not much choice when it comes to gear to work towards and largely no real choice when it comes to talis and renown and frankly... build. So it's all very linear AND grueling progression that imo has a tad too much rng for my taste (what feels like eng contribution + RNGroll + RNGwhat's in the bag itself...

In tier 3 I played alts. In t4 I don't have that luxury. Another way of addressing this could be looking at making currency bound to account. This enables you to enjoy leveling alts because you likely have enough emblems of medallions to buy Anni or Merc to kick you off at t4 on that alt. Would also encourage playing alts in t4 based on group comp and use the currency you earned on that alt to gear your main. This would also promote alts.

Just a thought.

More gear choice, and more accessibility to those gear options and more encouragement to play alts.

[Yardy]

An increase in the visible progression towards conqourer gear for players outside the premade guild warbands and small 6 man groups who consistently finish top of zone contribution. To enable lesser players to enjoy a sense of progression. Whether this is through increased conq medallion rewards for zone and keep bag rewards, slightly reducing cost of gear or enabling an up conversion, even at 10 to 1 ratio, of officer medallions to conqueror to one, compensate for solider medallions rewarded in RvR and two enable less fortunate players the ability to earn progression.

When current end gear is more obtainable, to a greater percentage of the population with the lower tier system in place, this will reduce the burnout of players, facilitate the leveling of new alts and friends with the increased renown in t2/3 RvR and increased exp from t2/3 sc quests and continue to support a healthy retention of casual and veteran players alike. Similar to the environment experienced in t3.

you are spot on big fella, we have been talking about this for ages in our TS, i'm glad you have said our thoughts. I'm tired of getting a gold (which is hard enough) and it is a dupe (13 golds i've had and i am still only 3 piece conc)

[Wam]

Other...

Spoiler:

I chose Other (More population/ order to kill would make me play more and I chose Loot system/AAO as some of the areas to improve this)

Something that increases/stimulates the activity and maintains it for the losing realm

Some players are motivated just to fight because its pvp but I think most players are motivated by loot/character progression and fixing that system should encourage/increase chance of players to fight on losing side of zone flip/population.
Increase amount of white bags on zone locks / and have bags contain tokens (see below)

A Ruin Style reward bags for zone lock captures so people can see progress and know their chances rely less on RNG/DUPES/Bad luck (Guild groups can stack and increase their chances... but for pug its even more RNG and pugs need some love too) You can even make it slightly grindy but if players know they are most likely getting something for character progression instead of nothing/waste then I think thats a more positive choice.

The above would also help with people who join a active zone hours after its been open who at the monet have zero chance to win anything so they sometimes might not care / want it locked / get a fresh zone to improve their chances...
Being able to opt out of Bags for zone lock (the same guys usually get the bags whether they want them or not without any choice of giving to another... so its wasted just like dupes are wasted)

Genesis blue bags is harder to get than full conqueror... that is a definate issue

The losing side... the outnumbered side... they need a even greater incentive than currently... fighting 60 vs 20 like tonight in eataine after we stomped Thunder mountain is no fun for both sides in my opinion... its very hard to get a half decent fight / warcamp spawn camping is boring and only 1 guy defended keep (brave dwarf on roof) it was still early EU primetime 9-10 pm GMT (Order had no pug wb at this time)...

If TUP or Phalanx (minus Drama) swap sides and put 50% effort into the other side that we put in destro... I predict it would be same outcome... with one side dominating too much

Morale and Psycholgy play a huge part of WAR/Server Balance... and its what killed a few servers on live when they had little chance so people gave up... then dominant side got bored and stopped with nothing to face. The enemy logs earlier the zones are getting dead faster.

So improving things that can help / encourage the underdog/pugs should be one of the priorities (but can't be exploited) More renown, xp, influence is nice but 400% x 0 = is still nothing...

I think improving XP for leveling alts would increase activity by quite alot (I remember the dbl xp weekend) not everyone is hardcore stick to one character, people like to try out other things and so many people complain about T3 (one side domination... better to pve/grind/skip/avoid completely) T4 needs a continous flow of fresh meat to replace people who a) get banned b) get burnt out c) RL Issues ...

Keeps are a bit of a issue... and by this i mean the lack of defending them and the grind afterwards... people defend bo's more than Keeps in many zones making them tedious... they just try tire enemy out with ninja bo's / avoid fights but didn't defend the keep hard... I remember 132 order in praag and only CNTK came to defend... against TUP/Phalanx and Pug WB's... The locking a zone after keep take is most the time lacklasture fight avoidance to the extreme, how can a tiny BO be more important than a freaking keep... but people are playing the contribution game to stack their chances of "loot" it is a boring playstyle because one side will either use stall tactics and give in eventually... or will afk at warcamp making it a dead zone despite having a good population.
I don't think conq should drop from kills that is so easy... Conq is very obtainable even with buggy loot system and buggy quests, If you put in some teamwork its obtainable... if you pug its not easily obtainable and also the activity of zones can play a big part also nad lately they become less active.

I think put a daily kill quest for conq in IC by flight master (see how effective SC Quest NPC is in north IC) (this running to keeps in other zones is a waste of time/effort and its usually bugged and requires so many variables that half the time is broken ) make it something non racist (those 50/50/50 when there is no one playing XX race is pretty harsh... like 250/250 kills for 8 conqueror medals or something like that as a example or 500/500 for 16 if you want people to hang around longer)

TLDR

Spoiler:

Better/transparent/fairer loot system to encourage pug activity (discourage x realm/bandwagoning)
Better rewarded leveling system to increase overall population activity and making it easier for new players to get into the game (most of us are veterans and have done all the quests grinding already alot and look for shortcuts anyways it becomes a chour for hardcore players so makes it rough for casuals I have had close to 30 40's now... 10+ on ROR)
Better rewards for underdog (population swings is a issue and one that is hard to balance I know... so help the little guy whoever he maybe)


With a fairer and more transparent loot/leveling system that should promote more inter realm teamwork... and less inter realm "contribution wars" where Guild Warbands or 6 Man's leave pug groups behind if playing on even time... should make a happy population which would mean less hassle and drama / bans needed from devs and a better gameplay experience overall / more fighting which is what I think the game is about / based on the endless war.

With Some tweaks and positive changes... which cater more to the casual player (we need them or sc pops will be very bad and zones empty) giving them easier access / entry to tier 4... and less of a broken reward system which creates a gear disparity between vets and newbies which is very hard gap to close for casual players (not that it should be easy to get final BIS gear... but they need to see a well lit path of progression instead of walking around blind in a tunnel praying to RNG Jesus that they stub their toe on conqueror gear and pick it up)

Thanks

[Wam]

An increase in the visible progression towards conqourer gear for players outside the premade guild warbands and small 6 man groups who consistently finish top of zone contribution. To enable lesser players to enjoy a sense of progression. Whether this is through increased conq medallion rewards for zone and keep bag rewards, slightly reducing cost of gear or enabling an up conversion, even at 10 to 1 ratio, of officer medallions to conqueror to one, compensate for solider medallions rewarded in RvR and two enable less fortunate players the ability to earn progression.

When current end gear is more obtainable, to a greater percentage of the population with the lower tier system in place, this will reduce the burnout of players, facilitate the leveling of new alts and friends with the increased renown in t2/3 RvR and increased exp from t2/3 sc quests and continue to support a healthy retention of casual and veteran players alike. Similar to the environment experienced in t3.

+1

I know TUP or Phalanx are usually top of this... and its true we generally put in more work with our co-ordination and commitment to fight and never give up BUT

This should not take away from other people's contribution in the war effort... thats why a ruin currency / merchant npc is best approach to solve this issue, (put 5 special currency medallion instead of random conqueror item... so you solve DUPE issue)

I am pretty sure most the people in TUP or Phalanx that win 75% (TBH its probally alot higher) of it is wasted each time to dupes if not more... and the better geared we get the more that will rise... Green/white dont matter... blue is hardest to get and usually a dupe... purp is very random and some classes its useless, gold is another most likely dupe... So many zone locks are wasted for rewards because of the way the system is.

The guys who don't always have consistant team mates but are none the less are always fighting out in the lakes doing their part in the war deserve a break now and then and under current system they get beaten down and demotivated because they don't know what more they can do within their means (yes they could GIT GUD... join/create/lead a guild/premade be more organised but they might not have the time/means/commitment to do this.... they should not be rewarded for being slack/afk but they should not also be punished either because they can't compete above their means I know its a hard balance for middle ground and if they do get lucky it will most likely be a empty bag (bug) or dupe under current system which will create more frustration.

[Darosh]

[...]
If TUP or Phalanx (minus Drama) swap sides and put 50% effort into the other side that we put in destro... I predict it would be same outcome... with one side dominating too much

Morale and Psycholgy play a huge part of WAR/Server Balance... and its what killed a few servers on live when they had little chance so people gave up... then dominant side got bored and stopped with nothing to face.
[...]
I remember 132 order in praag and only CNTK came to defend... against TUP/Phalanx and Pug WB's...
[...]

Absolutly accurate, player mentality makes or breaks RvR/PvP centric games.

Spoiler:

If you have one side dominating and the other filled to the brim with fairweather players (lets name it: pugs, lonewolves unwilling to cooperate/improve) it is not only nigh impossible to improve for the few remaining organized guilds - as they barely get to live long enough to see the effect of any of their adjustments and approaches -, but you'll invetiably have even those few guilds, that are willing to put up a fight, shatter at some point or another ~ if not only because of the **** (= mockery and alike) that is flung into their general from the pug-populace that wants to be carried, but refuses to assist or is otherwise way to hesitant and concerned about k/d, and all these other useless metrics.
Reading region - at times advice, /6 and /3 - chats on order, on CNTK session days is equally as hilarious (due to entitlement beyond good and evil, or utter lack of selfawareness otherwise) as it is disheartening, as it spells out that there is a dire future to be had.

All of this is getting ten times worse if it is basically, and quite literally, just three guilds that participate in the actual competition on a same or atleast similar level and scale - two of which (incl. respective pug entourage) are up against the third.
It is not that there aren't any other guilds around on order or destro either, its just that only these three are willing to put up a fight.

TLDR: We need more organized guilds, at best an equal amount of them on both sides... and probably the established guilds to dial it back a little (= stop/prevent stacking organized forces [Note: I am aware that pugs will be pugs, and A. will be A. ...]) to give their opposition a chance to improve. Practice sticks alot better if you are not getting roflstomped 24/7, as you then can actually gauge and perceive improvement ~ I figure.

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

inb4 14 more pages of spitballing where no one really reads anyone elses ideas but just adds in their reponses and then we get a lock by page 20.