[Declined][Magus] Bolt of Change

[peterthepan3]

For a 3 second cast, it should be undefendable. I think most people would take an undefendable bolt over one with more range, but they can't modify the range for Bolt alone atm.

[Tankbeardz]

I suggested a happy medium of 7 seconds for BoC and Snipe a while back.

I think someone suggested a nerf to magus engi...Really?!

[dansari]

I know it's not the same, but to add context: Fester Arrow is at 9pts on the tree, 5s cd, 3s cast. It would be like making Fester Arrow undefendable at a higher range.

[Tankbeardz]

Spoiler:

I know it's not the same, but to add context: Fester Arrow is at 9pts on the tree, 5s cd, 3s cast. It would be like making Fester Arrow undefendable at a higher range.

I'd be happy with a RKD, self punt, silence, or heal debuff. JS

There is no need to post out of context, post constructively in a manner that continues the discussion or not at all. Continuation of this will result in a warning and will escalate to a ban. Gerv

[Tesq]

festering arrow + tactic make pure dmg that's totaly different please..

Boc and engi counter part defendable is a joke, BW /magus can both spam undefendable stuff if they are built for it, it's a way to play the class; disrupt in game is pretty gave for free to counter sorc/bw also.

Have 1 skill undefendable when you can have all the rest of the rotation be perma disrupt or require you to slot 1 tactic to have 1 only skill udnefendable are all part of the class build.
I dont see much point in allow Boc to be defendable when the best preamdes on both sides are mara/wl + rdps that can kite or wh/we. They are not very hard hitter in a blink of a second; under guard the burst extinguish pretty fast.

[Dabbart]

I know it's not the same, but to add context: Fester Arrow is at 9pts on the tree, 5s cd, 3s cast. It would be like making Fester Arrow undefendable at a higher range.

I'd be happy with a RKD, self punt, silence, or heal debuff. JS

This. I don't play magus, so specific ability rotations are unknown to me. However, any increase to DPS that comes from an undetauntable range needs to be considered very, very carefully.

Spoiler:

Just give them a healdebuff and let them actually be a DPS class...

Comments akin to the spoilered one are not warranted here because the comment is out of context and not responding to the OP. Side comments do nothing but potentially derail the thread if picked up by other individuals. Gerv

[Whitesands]

Why not just make it a 5 sec CD, 13 point *DEFENDABLE* ability? Same with Snipe...

I mean, is having it defednable too harsh of a nerf? I dont really think so...

BoC and Snipe are both undefendable. Whatever happens with BoC also would apply to Snipe. This means the danger or threat from a 5 second cool down of BoC, also applies to Snipe. There is parity.

For the months BoC and Snipe were on a 5 second cool down I didn't see any complaints. If one goes back and searches the forums I don't believe there were any threads about this as an issue. What it did do was place both the engi and magus in a position where they could be viable threats to the others side (and to each other as obvious counters). The 5 second cool down only increased their viability in group settings which is all to the good. A single target RDPS class should be dangerous on a target to target basis, that is the point of the specialization.

Yes... I get the snipe parity. Which is why I proposed.....

Making both BoC and Snipe 5 sec CDs, 13 point Mastery, but DEFENDABLE. Not undefendable. Most classes (besides tanks) dont have very high disrupt/dodge %s...

I also would question your "litmus" test for if its balanced or not "I dont believe there were any complaints" isnt a good gauge IMO. Especially considering in my time in ROR Magus hasnt exactly been the most popular class.... So its not like you WOULD complain because they werent as popular...

giving a 5 sec CD, hard hitting, undefendable ability... on a class that gets bonus crit damage to boot. IDK man... That seems like ots too much pressure, considering how "tanky" and self sustain the Magus can be compared to a Sorc or something.

Like I said... Would it really break the ability, if you made it defendable but on a 5 sec CD? This gives you MOST of what you want, and nobody can say its OP because you can "counter" it.


Thats the bottom line I think of any suggestion. Can you counter it.

With what you propose.. I hesitate because there really isnt a counter. You have ranged advantage, you do non physical damage (meaning less % mitigation) and its not defendable? How do you play against it then? Beg a tank to guard swap and a healer to heal? IDK....

Im pretty salty against the HUGE advantage RDPS has in this game.... so maybe thats just my bias coming though..

I don't believe the Powers are able to make BoC defendable. If that were doable, that is something to consider.

Per your notion of litmus tests and balance: If there are no complaining threads about a thing, it's harder to argue it is considered OP or unbalanced, unless one is simply salty (your words) toward an entire combat type, as in your case: range DPS.

BoC doesn't get any bonus crit. damage.

Per countering: having a class on the other side that can do the same thing is a direct counter. Further, BoC isn't a threat on its own. It becomes dangerous when found in a rotation. Any rotation with BoC is going to be a drawn out affair. The pet summon, attending abilities' casting, BoC's three second cast etc. all of this and one can easily end up with a rotation that is much longer that say than the base line sorc. rotation. Further, the long magus roation indicates a host of countering actions as options: silence the caster, knockdown the caster, knock the caster away from the pet. detaunt etc. If someone gets hit by a BoC rotation, then in many ways it's deserved given they allowed all that would tie in with it to occur.

A simple thought experiment is apt. If one were putting together a group and were adding a RDPS, is magus the go to? The answer is obvious. Magi as OP is its own refutation. If the class isn't OP, then no single ability can warrant the title either.


Now, if the decision is not to go back to the 5 second CD, then BoC should return to its prior mastery placement with the 10 second timer. It makes no sense to maintain something where the reason for that change no longer exists.

[trebla]

Happy medium, un-defendable at 100 ft range and under, above that it is defendable, this allows the class to not sit in a sniper nest out of range of most classes, and also allows for that gameplay but the victim now has the ability to defend themselves. Propose a weakness to something if unchecked that could become a strength.

Or if BOC is lowered to 5 sec then make it defendable. simply your BOC was defended, debuff the target try again in 5 sec. shouldn't be a spam I win button anyway. should be timed around your teams burst.

[Tankbeardz]

To those who think BoC and Snipe are OP and need to be nerfed...I implore you to play the class.

It is great at blowing up pugs, but it's nothing that any other range class can do in half the time. If you are dying quickly, that is more likely the result of a rotation that took about 10+ seconds to set up and it is not the range that is the real issue. The one exception to that is UF for the engi. Magus FM you can see a mile away and have plenty of time to react to.