DPS spec tank/healer Hypocrisy

[crusadius]

People need to stop using the terms ''dps tank or dps healer''
Because if you do, your just wrong. You cannot be both, you are the first, or the 2nd.
For example: You cannot have smart idiots.

[Drudge]

ehhhhhh, you can do damage as a tank and damage as a healer. I know lots of smart idiots as well. I know many people who could tell you anything about anything but cant take a nut off a bolt to save their lives. Im actually the opposite, I can fix just about anything but i dont know much. Sorry buddy i gotta call you out on your analogy.

[ragafury]

I run a defenensive 2h BO, with more WS than str and i can kill people. I guard still and i dont have to worry about being 2 shot. Catch a squishy off guard I can lay them out in 1 3 hit combo. Now i also play a choppa because of the quite valid argument of "just roll a dps noob". I die in like half a hit and cant actually kill ****. But i do play solo as i dont have enough time for the try hard guild life.

and feel free to do as you like, who am I to judge.

Spoiler:

My personal experience is, that 2hd black orc is not fun with low renown (<60) and mediocre gear. So I will not play it. If you want to play it, do it. I'm not the guy who says omg gitgut and play a meta build. If you ask me for advice, I would not recommend it because of the given reason above, so simple is that.
And my comment about the vid is basically that it is false advertisement cause it's from live, he wears ubergear, he is 2 shotting squishies with 1-2 skill(s) + white hit, having the luxury of spending 100 points and extra talent points and so on. and that's not what you gotta expect atm. from 2hd BO going for offgear, especially fresh of the boat with 40 renown and below.

and in my opinion the same goes for e.g. melee DoK. low renown and yikes gear, better don't do it. you will even hurt yourself cause you will lose sc's for farming the desired gear all by yourself, and not playing healer. often the gear is to weak and the RR is missing to pull it off.
but overall I think they are fine in sc's with proper gear/ specc and so on.

I know there are some BOs on the server who don't think as bad as me about the current state of 2hd BO, but they have a high rr to cover there build and don't die 24324 times in a single sc.

As I said, everybody can play builts they like if I'm around in a sc.
but as an example don't be mad if somebody enters a scenario and don't get my support, when there is a yikes equipped melee dok, and a propper geared choppa, guess who I am following around and guarding per default, because I know it works.

I'm getting triggered by bad decision making in sc's. and in RvR I simply don't need to play with those ppl. who are doing shenaningangs.

and I know what you mean with the choppa, I got one myself, but I want to play him on deffgear for solo roaming purposes (high parry + riposte etc), also an unpopular build / playstyle.

[th3gatekeeper]

I wont write into my super long rant about this, but the bottom line of this is Guard.

Guard is basically what WAR/ROR combat is built upon and IMO is an archaic mechanic created back with Vanilla WoW and 6 hour "Raids" were what MMOs were all about.

It was a genius thing back then, but now, we have learned about what players actually want out of games much more over the last 10 years.

That, and the "audience" of players who played MMOs 10+ years ago, are all 10+ years older now, with wives and kids.

There is a reason WOW doesnt do 6 hour raids anymore.

Guard is a mechanic built for a "Hardcore PVP Only" game. Where as most players today, are looking for both - casual and hardcore options.

The problem with Guard is that its not a "fun" ability to use. The responsibility of "Guard" falles solely on the Tank himself, when in fact it should be a SHARED responsibility.

Ill put it another way. If I log into my Mara, I have no way of "obtaining" protection from a tank. I am completely at the mercy of THAT tank, selecting me, guarding me, and then staying close to me.

Guard works GREAT in premade groups. In "theory" all the "pro tanks" in premades swap guard 24/7 correct? So in this "theory" everyone in that group always has guard (unless punted).

So why not make this the way guard works???? It would work "the same" in premade groups - Guard affects all party members (which is right now done via swapping guard) but rather than do that, make Guard an "Aura" so now that MDPS can merely choose to run NEXT to the tank and WHAM! He has Guard.

Now its not solely on the Tank to guard, but also on people that want guard - stay by your tank!

Now, if we JUST did this... the tanks would never activate Guard... cause they would get NUKED in 2 seconds with 4 party members standing next to them...

So what you then have to do is modify Guard a little... I have ideas for this as well..


Anyways, you can look to "newer" games that have designed "roles" for PVP - such as Overwatch. It has "tanks" and "healers" and "damage dealers" in a similar fashion. How do the tanks work? They have FUN damage mitigation abilities.... Youll never see a tanks job in those games to cast an ability and follow that person around....

Point being... Guard is outdated but its also at the "core" of ROR... I personally think its ONE of the reasons WAR died. People dont always want to "try hard" by making a premade group. By finding healers and tanks and what not. Sometimes people just want to play and have fun....

But tanks having to really "try hard" to guard (im not saying it IS hard, I am saying it requires effort and focusing on guard to use correctly which isnt fun) is not always appealing. So what do tanks do? they grab a 2H,stack str, and forgo guard to whack stuff..... Which leads to MDPS classes melting on the front lines, which leads to more MDPS rolling 2H "DPS" Tanks, which leads to nobody killing anything because tanks are low damage, which leads to healers getting sick of healing tanks who dont kill ****, which leads to healers going DPS. OR, youll see RDPS who dont get heals who then roll healers to instead DPS so they get to heal themselves.


You would see WAY less "hybrid" rolls if you adjusted Guard to be more "fun" less of a "focus" for tanks and some of that emphasis placed on party members to make THEM stay near tanks, not tanks stay near guarded targets...

This would largely make premades the exact same (since premades just swap guard - something PUGs never do) and it would make PUG vs PUG games and Premade vs PUG games more fun.

I would sake real cash on this. You would see people playing ROR more, on classes they enjoy more, having a better time, population would grow, and less "hybrid" rolls all with 1 mechanic....

Thats my analysis after MAINING tanks, and trying both RDPS and MDPS classes out and my observation of countless countless SCs and trying to talk to tanks about why they are playing it wrong (and not guarding). Really what a "DPS" 2H tank WANTS to be is a MDPS... But he cant, because they are too squishy because they dont get guarded... So they roll tanks to be "tanky DPS" which is just where the fail snowball starts.

EDIT: Ooops.... I wrote my super long rant. Sorry

[Drudge]

Guard aura plus cant hit me, yes plz? Id put my 2her in the bank for this.

[Nefarian78]

I wont write into my super long rant about this, but the bottom line of this is Guard.

Guard is basically what WAR/ROR combat is built upon and IMO is an archaic mechanic created back with Vanilla WoW and 6 hour "Raids" were what MMOs were all about.

It was a genius thing back then, but now, we have learned about what players actually want out of games much more over the last 10 years.

That, and the "audience" of players who played MMOs 10+ years ago, are all 10+ years older now, with wives and kids.

There is a reason WOW doesnt do 6 hour raids anymore.

Guard is a mechanic built for a "Hardcore PVP Only" game. Where as most players today, are looking for both - casual and hardcore options.

The problem with Guard is that its not a "fun" ability to use. The responsibility of "Guard" falles solely on the Tank himself, when in fact it should be a SHARED responsibility.

I agree on this part. maining multiple tanks (and having played both dps and fulltank builds) Tanks are probably the hardest role and the less rewarding one (in terms of fun). Mainly because of the guard mechanic.

Making guard a shared responsability would greatly improve tanks gameplay both for dps-tanks and SnB. Atm playing a tank in pugs feels like playing a jungler in LoL. it's your fault if you do, it's your fault if you don't and always remember to blame the tank, even if he swapped guard on you and you started to panic-run away.

Sadly i don't think it's even possible to make such big changes to the game right now or if the devs would actually take the risk to try such a drastic change to the game.

I don't agree with the 2h tanks "really" wanting to play full dps classes. my main is a 2h BO, and i chose said class and build for multiple reasons. i like being tanky, i like helping my team but also like dealing moderate-high damage. the looks of the class style also plays a huge role (and even the Lore behind the class itself sometimes). i personally like big weapons and heavy armors. a 2h BO was the perfect choice for me

[Drudge]

What nef said is dead on for me the heavy armor and a 2h is just cool to me. I played an orc destroyer in lineage 2 ironicly i used light armor on him and that was against the meta lol.

I like orcs I dont want to play a mara or anything else, and i thing the choppa mechanic is garbage. So here we are

[lilsabin]

I know man people cant think outside the box, I catch hell constantly for stacking int on my BO.

looooool , u should try wisdon actually , it works man

[th3gatekeeper]

What nef said is dead on for me the heavy armor and a 2h is just cool to me. I played an orc destroyer in lineage 2 ironicly i used light armor on him and that was against the meta lol.

I like orcs I dont want to play a mara or anything else, and i thing the choppa mechanic is garbage. So here we are

Hey, I play 2h chosen. I like it over SnB too. My point being, most 2h tanks I run into are not tank 2h tanks but wanna be DPS 2h tanks.

My point is Guard needs rework. NOT that a 2h tank can't be a viable tank....

[lilsabin]

ehhhhhh, you can do damage as a tank and damage as a healer. I know lots of smart idiots as well. I know many people who could tell you anything about anything but cant take a nut off a bolt to save their lives. Im actually the opposite, I can fix just about anything but i dont know much. Sorry buddy i gotta call you out on your analogy.

is a priest speced shadow a healer dps , in WoW ?