Why you nerfed shaman?

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

Why is that a problem? Every class should have a counter/weakness. The answer to 3 second range knockdown balancing is not to give one class that has already exceptional kiting tools another tool. The answer is to change range knockdowns (which exist on both factions).

Using nerfs to ballance something that isn't really completly busted in the first place is a great recepie for pissing people off that allready spent **** ton of time on a character wich is resaulting in people leaving. Buffing a weakness or adding counter plays however makes people excited about the change. Here's a video demonstrating why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY&t=443s

Ok.
Which tool "A" do you want to give to every class of a faction to counter broken class/archetype ability "B", which high likely exists only on one/a few class(es) of the other faction and how do you avoid any unforeseen consequences (i.e. new imbalances) that could arise when, for instance, tool "A" is used in interaction with class/archetype ability "C"?

Wouldn't it instead be better to adjust ability "B" directly to avoid any unforeseen consequences or at least reduce them to a minimum?

About the video: It's an opinion of someone on the internet, nothing more. It doesn't prove that what the person wants will work for every situation.
E.g.: If we follow his advice that the poor individual shouldn't be discouraged by "loss aversion", we would have a hyperinflation in no time. "Safe spaces" don't work on the long term; they delay problems and possibly cause even more/bigger problems in the future.

Nerfing also creates a new hiarchy of power due to something getting worse will make something else better. So it also have a chance of putting you in the exactly the same risk of creating a new situation thats broken. The ranged knockdowns arn't equally busted against every group comp. It doesn't have the same outcome on 2 DoK + 2 mdps + 2 tanks as it have on groups with Shamans/Zeal + rdps based groups for example. So why nerf something thats only situationally busted? As for game designing, it's easier to nerf something then to be creative and find new sollutions to it. Thats why you do it in general. Both ways of reballancing have very simular pro and cons. But the dealbreaker for me is always gonna be this, wich is explained in the video like 10 times. People like getting new things. That gets people excited and makes em happy to play. Taking stuffs away tend to have the oppsoitee effect.

As for as the video, it was just a medium for me to explain what i meant without typing a wall of text. Both you and me are also just people on the internet with opinions. Nothing more.

stacking disrupt just for 1 ability is nonsense, i hope we agree.

Coz Marauder is the only class that uses spells that can be dissrupted?
What about Shaman, Magus, Zealot, Sorcs Squig Herders? (Yeah Deft Defender gives Dodge aswell)

[Toldavf]

I didn't see you championing this when RD wasn't implemented like it was on live. I think allot of people remember the old RD champ challenge from live and to be honest the RoR implementation is way more balanced than that old piece of cheese.

The real question is are shamans being unduly punished by white lions because their ability to kite is somewhat reduced? and i would have to say the answer to that question is no.

[gebajger]

Spoiler:

Using nerfs to ballance something that isn't really completly busted in the first place is a great recepie for pissing people off that allready spent **** ton of time on a character wich is resaulting in people leaving. Buffing a weakness or adding counter plays however makes people excited about the change. Here's a video demonstrating why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY&t=443s

Ok.
Which tool "A" do you want to give to every class of a faction to counter broken class/archetype ability "B", which high likely exists only on one/a few class(es) of the other faction and how do you avoid any unforeseen consequences (i.e. new imbalances) that could arise when, for instance, tool "A" is used in interaction with class/archetype ability "C"?

Wouldn't it instead be better to adjust ability "B" directly to avoid any unforeseen consequences or at least reduce them to a minimum?

About the video: It's an opinion of someone on the internet, nothing more. It doesn't prove that what the person wants will work for every situation.
E.g.: If we follow his advice that the poor individual shouldn't be discouraged by "loss aversion", we would have a hyperinflation in no time. "Safe spaces" don't work on the long term; they delay problems and possibly cause even more/bigger problems in the future.

Nerfing also creates a new hiarchy of power due to something getting worse will make something else better. So it also have a chance of putting you in the exactly the same risk of creating a new situation thats broken. The ranged knockdowns arn't equally busted against every group comp. It doesn't have the same outcome on 2 DoK + 2 mdps + 2 tanks as it have on groups with Shamans/Zeal + rdps based groups for example. So why nerf something thats only situationally busted? As for game designing, it's easier to nerf something then to be creative and find new sollutions to it. Thats why you do it in general. Both ways of reballancing have very simular pro and cons. But the dealbreaker for me is always gonna be this, wich is explained in the video like 10 times. People like getting new things. That gets people excited and makes em happy to play. Taking stuffs away tend to have the oppsoitee effect.

As for as the video, it was just a medium for me to explain what i meant without typing a wall of text. Both you and me are also just people on the internet with opinions. Nothing more.

stacking disrupt just for 1 ability is nonsense, i hope we agree.

Coz Marauder is the only class that uses spells that can be dissrupted?
What about Shaman, Magus, Zealot, Sorcs Squig Herders? (Yeah Deft Defender gives Dodge aswell)

It was about countering pull, not sorcs, magi, shamy, etc...ofc deft defender will work on other stuff too, but that wasnt the point.
And once again, its about pull in general, not mara.
Btw , since the title is 'why you nerfed shaman' .... how about fixing the radius on sticky feetz/motm.
It has a delay the live version didnt have. Combined with the reduced radius its almost useless.
I can only agree that stacking speedbuffs is a nightmare, the server cant handle it, all you see is people warping or teleporting.

[Kobra]

I spent some time rebuilding my shaman a bit.

It's still a tossup if I can survive a WL but generally - no.. On the bright side I can survive WH's much better now. I raised parry to a whopping 30% parry rate on my shaman. Toughness is close to 600 assuming DSU is up and usually is. Potting up, armor is around 1500ish. I most cases I seem to parry 1-2 shots on their burst - this sometimes gives me 1-2 more casts and about half the time I can survive. That may worsen or improve depending and is HIGHLY reliant on me not having any lag or delays or hitting the wrong keys in the 6 seconds I have to live.

Also, there is a bug with the Sticky Feet shaman ground glue thing.. It sometimes doesn't even cast or there is a delay when attempted. Please fix this. I've had 3 other shamans test it and there is a bug with this spell. So on the bright side a WL isn't a 100% loss for me now for EVERY WL. Good ones that are well geared still beat me insanely fast and with 100% regularity even with all of these changes. But there general run of the mill WL is only 50/50 with me now.. LOL Tiny improvement but at least some improvement. The saddest part of all this is what I give up to do this - literally every aspect of my toon suffers - just so I can get 1-2 more casts off.. Hardly fair, right? Don't for a minute think that this means I believe WL shouldn't be nerfed. They should.

[GodlessCrom]

lol get a group and stop dying solo to white lions.

[dansari]

I spent some time rebuilding my shaman a bit.

It's still a tossup if I can survive a WL but generally - no.. On the bright side I can survive WH's much better now. I raised parry to a whopping 30% parry rate on my shaman. Toughness is close to 600 assuming DSU is up and usually is. Potting up, armor is around 1500ish. I most cases I seem to parry 1-2 shots on their burst - this sometimes gives me 1-2 more casts and about half the time I can survive. That may worsen or improve depending and is HIGHLY reliant on me not having any lag or delays or hitting the wrong keys in the 6 seconds I have to live.

Also, there is a bug with the Sticky Feet shaman ground glue thing.. It sometimes doesn't even cast or there is a delay when attempted. Please fix this. I've had 3 other shamans test it and there is a bug with this spell. So on the bright side a WL isn't a 100% loss for me now for EVERY WL. Good ones that are well geared still beat me insanely fast and with 100% regularity even with all of these changes. But there general run of the mill WL is only 50/50 with me now.. LOL Tiny improvement but at least some improvement. The saddest part of all this is what I give up to do this - literally every aspect of my toon suffers - just so I can get 1-2 more casts off.. Hardly fair, right? Don't for a minute think that this means I believe WL shouldn't be nerfed. They should.

And I get dumpstered by good WEs. So? The devs, rightly so, aren't going to care about 1v1 interactions. As has been stated, every class has strengths and weaknesses. You're going to have a 1v1 counter. Whining about WLs as a shammy of all things, which has probably the best kiting potential in the game, is what's laughable. The game is rock, paper, scissors, not waah, waah, shammy.