BG buffs to be more inline with IB?

[Jaycub]

only class that can make itself immune to detaunts

For some reason only RoR staff brings that up. I'm yet to meet a single BG that wastes a point on that tactic.

It's good against in pugs but in premade play it is a useless tactic.

This 1000x, it's just a pubstomper tactic because of how useless it becomes when you are playing against a group with decent tanks who know how to swap guard.

[zabis]

So kinda like a cave in mirror that requires parry?

Is it even possible to make an ability have a double requirement? Both parry and 2H?

I was thinking single target, but I wouldn't cry if it were AOE

[Frontenstuermer]

At all, oathfriend has much more advantages for the person who get it.
furthermore the BG needs hate to increase his defend(like parry or disrupt).
The IB hasnt this problem because his defence abilities use AP or Tactics.

[zabis]

At all, oathfriend has much more advantages for the person who get it.
furthermore the BG needs hate to increase his defend(like parry or disrupt).
The IB hasnt this problem because his defence abilities use AP or Tactics.

But the IB has to slot a tactic for his abilities to build Grudges

[Lektroluv]

That the destruction faction has an abundance of wounds debuffs doesn't mean the the BG is weak. It was just bad game design by the original developers. The IB and the BG the class mechanics look the same, but actually they work differently. You have to play them both to get the difference as it is hard to describe, not only compare them on paper like many people do.

the KD should definitely proc off of a parry as well. The 10% crit debuff that they give is the best debuff the BG brings to the table, but if you take that then you can't knock people down. Maybe it should even proc off of a disrupt honestly. All other tanks have a kd they can use at any time, no defensive proc needed. The only other one that isnt immediately ready is the SM or BO one, but it just requires you to use 2 abilities to get to it.

A proposal for a potential 5 second knockdown on parry (or even parry and disrupt) on the only class that can make itself immune to detaunts and has generally a very good anti-caster capabilities (including a disrupt tactic) will probably not get alive through the balance subforum.

About knockdowns with a requirement:
The IB core knockdown requires a shield and a successful block, not that this would be much of a disadvantage for a tank who's guarding/switching guard on focused targets; though i can imagine that a BG knockdown on disrupt would helpful in 1vs1 situations or if the BG thinks his primary role is that of a DPS...

I don't get why people is focusing in KD, which is not even close to be the only mayor disadvantage over IB... as you said the KD in other class is full time available, with or withouth shield since 0,1 sec into fight.

But the bigger problems are not only that, are way much worse than people reading abilities can understand and only T4 BG players understand them.

I will give you some examples, which seems people don't wanna adress them.

1º- Ability Snare
IB -> BINDING GRUDGE cause 255 direct damage and puts a DoT based on grudge which can make up to 650 damage over 10 seconds
BG-> CRIPLING ANGER cause 0 direct damage and puts a DoT not based in hate which cause 645 damage over 10 seconds.

(playing a Blackguard you notice that dot is doing 7 hp ticks in tanks and 45hp ticks in Squishy targets, since the blackguard version do not have any direct damage, means it is 1 cooldown spent for cause laughtable damage while Ironbreaker at least have change to make some direct damage in the CC ability)

2º- The damage in many abilities scale with Grudge or give them big advantages to Ironbreaker over Blackguard

One example is the area snare ability WAVE OF SCORN which on blackguard is stuck at cause 284 base damage and not receive any damage boost in exchange from Hate mechanicand cost 55 AP points
On other side the IB area snare, receive a mayor damage boost based on grudge mechanic making it posible to hit the 445 base damage at 100 grudge aka double damage and cost 25 AP points.

Another ability which gives a big diference, is the chaneled hiting ability
While in blackguard the chaneled ability ENRAGED BEATING hits for 283 base damage over 3 seconds, and making each critical hit during the ability gain 10 hate.
The ironbreaker version deals 520 base damage hits over 3 seconds, and based on grudge mechanic each attack has a 20% chance of critical hit at 100% grudge.
(yes you read right, while BG only does 283 base damage and do not take any advantage of hate mechanic, the Ironbreaker is hiting for 2 times the amount of damage and having 20% crit chance based on grudge)

Another pool of **** are the Ability OATHBOUND which gives a 25% parry to the oathfriend player for 10 seconds, the Blackguard version is FORCE OF FURY, which gives 618 armour and % less crit chance on YOURSELF only and the armour buff do not stack with the potions effect... making it more crap that a week with Ripley in a space travel.

Another ability which is full of laughts is ELITE TRAINING, which gives almost garanted parry in next 4 attacks during 10 seconds hahahahahaha 4 attacks hahaha, and which give 15 action points based in hate for each parry.
The Ironbreaker version is Oathstone, an almost garanted BLOCK for next 4 attacks (much better than Parry, of course) and which based in grudge can cause up to 500 base damage each block!!!
Where i have to sign the petition for change the action points for 500 damage hits in the attacker???




I am just making a small resume of why the big, ancestral, mitical diference betwen IB and BG which make one great tank and another one really bad.
The lack of buffs in dark protected target, the lack of damage compared to what an IB can deal and didn't even talk about the number of dots he can drop in target while blackguard only has Blade of ruin (which cost hate, which require block or parry, and which does crap damage amount over 10 seconds)

But here comes the worst part, and this is the most depresing one of all balances in game probably...

Ironbreaker do not need spend points in 3 paths for be a viable 2hand tank, or even a defensive one.... you can achieve the Self Healing ability in the same path it is the area snare, and that allow you to spend points in damage dealing path for achieve chaneled ability which make you have a 20% crit chance.
Blackguard on other side, is not allowed to reach Self healing ability in third path, Area snare from central path and the chaneled ability from first path + crit tactic and wounds debuff tactic (Ironbreaker can give up the crit tactic, since the chaneled ability already give them a 20% crit chance)


It is pretty clear and every person which knows about how the game is played, Blackguard is not even a shadow of what Ironbreaker can do, not only in terms of what you do not give to your dark protected person, the damage dealing is way lower with abilities not scaling in damage with hate, you are forced to equip a crit chance tactic because hate do not buff crit chance in chaneled ability, you can't achieve a reasonably build because are snare in central path breaks the sinergy of the class, while ironbreaker gets area snare in third path allowing him to use one 2 paths and ignoring third.

[bloodi]

I will give you some examples, which seems people don't wanna adress them.

The only example you gave is of someone who went and read the tooltips, got almost all of them wrong and now is trying to paint a great imbalance.

For starters, the snare does the same damage on BG with 0 hatred as the IB one does with 100 grudge, there is no direct damage part whatsoever, you just made it up after not understanding what you read.

It gets pretty tiring to see how people make up **** every god damn time around these parts all while accusing everyone else of great bias.

[Lektroluv]

I will give you some examples, which seems people don't wanna adress them.

The only example you gave is of someone who went and read the tooltips, got almost all of them wrong and now is trying to paint a great imbalance.

For starters, the snare does the same damage on BG with 0 hatred as the IB one does with 100 grudge, there is no direct damage part whatsoever, you just made it up after not understanding what you read.

It gets pretty tiring to see how people make up **** every god damn time around these parts all while accusing everyone else of great bias.

While the Ironbreaker does direct damage + DoT based on grudge, the Blackguard doesn't do any direct damage and makes the full nonsense 10hp ticks dot straight not based on hate, and give up the direct damage.

You can take the dot straight and make it based on hate like IB base it on grudges and give some direct damage to the BG, so we don't waste one CD for nothing.

It is quite well explain, maybe you don't understand it.


Maybe you can't tell me the area snare damage do not scale with grudge too? the area snare is not in third path instead of central one either? is the self heal in another tree too? you have to specialize in 3 paths for a viable build like balckguards? doesn't your chaneled hiting ability scale crit based on grudges, while blackguard do not give any crit boost?

[bloodi]

While the Ironbreaker does direct damage + DoT based on grudge, the Blackguard doesn't do any direct damage and makes the full nonsense 10hp ticks dot straight not based on hate, and give up the direct damage.
It is quite well explain, maybe you don't understand it.

It doesnt do the direct damage, there is no direct damage. You just made it up.

Please, stop reading the tooltips of the other faction to reassure yourself of your made up imbalances.

[Lektroluv]

While the Ironbreaker does direct damage + DoT based on grudge, the Blackguard doesn't do any direct damage and makes the full nonsense 10hp ticks dot straight not based on hate, and give up the direct damage.
It is quite well explain, maybe you don't understand it.

It doesnt do the direct damage, there is no direct damage. You just made it up.

Please, stop reading the tooltips of the other faction to reassure yourself of your made up imbalances.

Ok remove that part and answer this

Can tell me the area snare ability damage do not scale with grudge too?
The area snare ability is not in third path instead of central one either?
Is the self heal in another tree too?
You have to specialize in 3 paths for a viable build like balckguards?
Doesn't your chaneled hiting ability scale crit based on grudges, while blackguard do not give any crit boost?

[bloodi]

Can tell me the area snare damage do not scale with grudge too? the area snare is not in third path instead of central one either? is the self heal in another tree too? you have to specialize in 3 paths for a viable build like balckguards? doesn't your chaneled hiting ability scale crit based on grudges, while blackguard do not give any crit boost?

Can you tell me why the IB KD is not 5 secs? Why cant we debuff a target to make everyone that hits it get 10% crit instead of spending a gdc to give 10% crit to one guy in our group? Why does BG get a wounds debuff and IB doesnt?

Why the **** are you directly comparing some mirror skills without getting the whole picture? Why i am even replying to you when you already shown with your various "engineers are so op and SH are the worst thing in any game ever" that you are a waste of anyones time? Why is there so many questions and so little time left of this year?

Again, stop reading tooltips, you get half of them wrong and you dont understand the game at all to get anything valuable of it. just stop it.