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With all respect to original devs.

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Genisaurus
Former Staff
Posts: 1054

Re: With all respect to original devs.

Post#11 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:59 pm

Telen wrote:To be fair to the old devs Kevean and Kevin. There were only two of them for like the last two years and before that they were all secretly working on wrath of heroes or drafted in to finish swtor. From what I heard Kevean wanted to make changes but was blocked by bioware or GW. EA were the problem gutting the game and letting it die.
Right. The decision that WAR was going to die was probably made 2 years into launch, and after that there were constant if slow cuts to resources across the board. A lot of people forget that the benchmark for WAR's success wasn't just the amount of income needed to keep the servers on and the devs paid, but also the cost required to renew the license.

Nobody knows how much the original IP license cost, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that with the success of other MMOs at the time, and the 5-year lease duration, that the cost might have been around $50 million (and who knows what other riders were in that cost, like royalties). Mark Jacobs once said that it takes "about $100 million" to compete in the MMO market, but the amount of money that it cost to make Warhammer Online was "south of $100 million." Other AAA titles (including the Conan MMO) in 2008 hit the $20 million mark in development costs, so the gap between Mark's estimate and the average cost can be estimated as licensing costs IMO.

Mr. Jacobs also once pegged the number of subscribers they would need to succeed as an RvR-MMO at 300k, during a postmortem. These numbers were deemed too low by EA, which is why PvE was focused on near the end of development. 300k is also exactly the number of subs that were lost by the second or third month after launch. So you can imagine how demoralizing and damaging that might be, to literally have your benchmark for success be the magnitude of your failure. Let's not also forget that EA posted a loss of over $1 billion the same year WAR launched. EA was already in a terrible place, and they needed money bad.

From there it's a downward spiral of "You aren't projected to succeed, we're cutting staff to maximize profit while we can" and "we can't do X, Y or Z that we need to do to succeed, because we don't have the staff." And they did need GW approval for every change they made. SMs and BOs couldn't get a defensive leap because GW said it wasn't lore-friendly. Imagine not being able to invent a new style of ability because someone things that the same class that has a Morale leap to an enemy wouldn't also leap to help a friend? Couple all that with a negative feedback loop of bad reviews (I don't like this game -> other people don't play the game, or play with but are predisposed to disliking it too), and you're doomed.

We don't know what the costs were, but we do know that there was a team who's careers and livelihoods depended on making WAR the best game they could with what they had. I don't like hearing claims that they were lazy, or incompetent, or refused to take action the game needed - that narrative doesn't make sense. I think that in reality, they only had a window of about 6 months to be as effective as possible, and after that they were hamstrung at every opportunity.

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3806

Re: With all respect to original devs.

Post#12 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:09 pm

And now the cycle repeats with SWTOR

the way that game is now feels like war near its end days
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Serbiansword
Posts: 132

Re: With all respect to original devs.

Post#13 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:11 pm

Long story short...

EA rushed this game. One of the reasons was because they wanted it out before Lich King. Remember that year? WotlK came out on November 13, 2008, WAR came out in September.
The game wasn't finished, code wasn't complete, hell, I think that Mythic didn't even manage to finish all the classes properly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but WAR initially rolled out without Slayer, Chopper and KotBS. There are some sources on the web that can tell you the full story about the downfall of WAR. Great idea. Immense potential. **** up by bunch of money grabbing suits and CEOs.

That being said, I owe my eternal gratitude to the RoR team. I salute to you guys!
Last edited by Serbiansword on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zabis
Posts: 1215

Re: With all respect to original devs.

Post#14 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:17 pm

Blackguard wasn't on the initial roster as well.
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Theseus
Posts: 526

Re: With all respect to original devs.

Post#15 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:23 pm

Serbiansword wrote:Long story short...

EA rushed this game. One of the reason's was because they wanted it out before Lich King. Remember that year? WotlK came out on November 13, 2008, WAR came out in September.
The game wasn't finished, code wasn't complete, hell, I think that Mythic didn't even manage to finish all the classes properly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but WAR initially rolled out without Slayer, Chopper and KotBS. There are some sources on the web that can tell you the full story about the downfall of WAR. Great idea. Immense potential. **** up by bunch of money grabbing suits and CEOs.

That being said, I owe my eternal gratitude to the RoR team. I salute to you guys!
I would say, you just described the history of the world itself my friend.^^
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Genisaurus
Former Staff
Posts: 1054

Re: With all respect to original devs.

Post#16 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:23 pm

Serbiansword wrote:Long story short...

EA rushed this game. One of the reason's was because they wanted it out before Lich King. Remember that year? WotlK came out on November 13, 2008, WAR came out in September.
The game wasn't finished, code wasn't complete, hell, I think that Mythic didn't even manage to finish all the classes properly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but WAR initially rolled out without Slayer, Chopper and KotBS. There are some sources on the web that can tell you the full story about the downfall of WAR. Great idea. Immense potential. **** up by bunch of money grabbing suits and CEOs.

That being said, I owe my eternal gratitude to the RoR team. I salute to you guys!
KotBS and Blackguard weren't done yet at all. The Slayer and Choppa were technically complete, but they were the Hammerer and Orc Boy / War Boy instead. Those classes were pulled and reflavored (though AFAIK their abilities and mechanics were mostly the same). Presumably because IBs and Hammerers were too similar visually, and Orc Boyz were too "standard".

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Asdrubael
Posts: 13

Re: With all respect to original devs.

Post#17 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:35 am

I'm positive everyone who plays ROR will agree that the Developers are wonderful. While not everyone may agree on how "Nice" they are, nobody can deny the fact that what their doing is absolutely amazing. While not paid, they still add great content, are working to make the game fully fleshed out, and give many people hope that one day we can have the Online Warhammer Fantasy game we where all waiting for.

While still Alpha, there are so many beautiful changes to this game already that just take your breath away. These Devs deserve respect.






This entire topic is the community complimenting the Devs.
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