Stat/Armor potions

[Dabbart]

Other than the previously stated issues of causing an increase in required amount, any thoughts on making potions Enchantment(or similar) buffs that can removed?

This would enable abilities to have high functionality, increase the required player awareness, and offer all sorts of different build and group comp...

Edit: on thinking it through, pots would need an immunity timer upon initial use for this to "work" say 2min of immunity to disenchant of pots after using with a 5min CD on each Pot type.

On the actual topic... I dislike the idea of a pot gain % myself. I would rather them removed entirely or only have them effect damage from PvE mobs rather than try to come up with an appropriate formula that doesn't "break" anything one way or another.

[sabat80]

@wargrimnir: that's very, very hard to make work. A simpler variant is to convert armor potions to % physical damage reduced. Effect is greater the lower your armor mitigation is.

That is really good idea! in that way armour buffs from classes are again useful option but pots got its uses as well!

[Karast]

My issue with the proposal and that goes for all three versions is the effect it will have on group comp balance.

Weakening, or removing potions makes the existing armor buffs / stat buffs, especially the passive aura type buffs much more valuable. Those buffs are currently not used since they do not stack with potions.

Once armor potions / stat potions are weakend then these abilities, and the careers that have them will become more powerful, unfortunately the AoE aura buffs are already on the stronger careers that currently dominate the group meta. DoK / WP, and Knight / Chosen.

Unless if changes are made to the aura type buffs to weaken them with the potions this change would only work as a buff to the stronger careers, and would make the current balance situation worse for the other tanks, and healers. You may argue using an armor aura or str aura means the loss a different aura, but all that does is cement the need for double stacking those classes to get double auras. Armor has a huge impact, making the auras extremely powerful.

I would agree with the proposal to weaken potions, if the auras were weakened or removed as well eliminating the balancing issue.

[Fey]

I do not believe potions need changing. It is unfortunate that they compromise certain abilities, my favorite example being We'z Bigger. The range on that ability makes it worthless in itself, and now I don't have to waste a point on it. Clobber is useless on it's own, there are plenty of useless abilities/tactics, that argument doesn't hold imo.

These days if I'm getting focused on my zealot it's about a 50/50 split to survive if I only heal myself. The only way this is possible is stacking armor and resists. 660 fewer armor is going to hurt. I can't decide which option is the best if it does change.

[Tesq]

this is not a problem of armor /potion it requrie a wide change of the approach of all game skill particular armor/resistences buff across all classes.

all this is due to things not stacking which is wrong, remove the stack close set up to the other side things cannot stack with currently value so armor potion and all aother stacking prioblem would be fixed if these kind of buff would be rebalanced but made stackable.

[Azarael]

I do not believe potions need changing. It is unfortunate that they compromise certain abilities, my favorite example being We'z Bigger. The range on that ability makes it worthless in itself, and now I don't have to waste a point on it. Clobber is useless on it's own, there are plenty of useless abilities/tactics, that argument doesn't hold imo.

It holds because in the forum rules here, it is stated that external and internal balance are desired. That means that no item ability or effect can knock out a class's effect and render it worthless. Short term pain and additional rebalancing will not change that goal.

[Klesko]

Changing pots has an impact on EVERYONE, and removing or severely nerfing them would have a huge impact on group makeup / balance and class desirability. There would now be a sudden need to have X class with X buff to compensate for the removal of the potion buffs, and as a result, if youre not that particular class you will be much less preferred in a group vs someone who does. Certain tanks will be much more desired vs those that do not offer the same buffs, and the same goes for healers. Not having those particular classes and going up against a team that does have them, puts you at a huge disadvantage if you no longer have the ability to compensate for lack of buffs by using potions.

Same coin, flip it over. With the introduction of tradeskill potions to the game you've done PRECISELY what it is that you've pointed out is a "problem." That is you've completely changed the dynamics of team make ups and what class is desired/needed/etc. A class should bring to the table what it is that they've been designed to bring to the table... if they have a buff or debuff or build that does a certain thing, they should be able to bring that to a warband/group and be appreciated for that, rather than have an ability or buff obsoleted by something that isn't even inherent to a particular class or spec.

Your argument that certain tanks will be much more desired because of the buffs they offer (to make up for the loss of buffs that potions would have otherwise provided) is actually an argument against yourself. Literally by introducing potion stat buffs to make those tanks LESS desirable is a hindrance on the game and creates the EXACT problem that you tried to point out in your argument about the impact on everyone in the game with a change to potions.

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

What sense does it make that ingesting a liquid somehow makes the clothes you are wearing more durable? If you're wearing robes, you should be literally shredded to pieces by someone with an axe, sword or spear. You have ranged abilities- you should not expect to survive more than 5 seconds standing toe to toe with someone whose sole purpose in life is to hack your limbs off.

Potions for strength, willpower, resists etc? Absolutely. But anything that increases your armor besides better armor as absurd and only benefits the ranged classes.

[Renork]

What sense does it make that ingesting a liquid somehow makes the clothes you are wearing more durable? If you're wearing robes, you should be literally shredded to pieces by someone with an axe, sword or spear. You have ranged abilities- you should not expect to survive more than 5 seconds standing toe to toe with someone whose sole purpose in life is to hack your limbs off.

Potions for strength, willpower, resists etc? Absolutely. But anything that increases your armor besides better armor as absurd and only benefits the ranged classes.

You do realize this is a fantasy game right? Using your own argument, a magician should be able to incinerate you in seconds and thus your axe, sword, or spear is worthless. See how that works?

Back on topic and quoting Azarael,

" A simpler variant is to convert armor potions to % physical damage reduced. Effect is greater the lower your armor mitigation is."

Sounds like a perfect solution. I read a couple of replies that state armor potions devalue armor buffs, by the same token if you remove armor potions you are making armor debuffs very powerful. A marauder/wl armor debuffing someone without armor potions (especially a clothie) will get ripped in a few seconds. Fixing a problem by creating another problem is not exactly the best way to go about this (talking about removing potions).

[SpacestarKid]

What sense does it make that ingesting a liquid somehow makes the clothes you are wearing more durable? If you're wearing robes, you should be literally shredded to pieces by someone with an axe, sword or spear. You have ranged abilities- you should not expect to survive more than 5 seconds standing toe to toe with someone whose sole purpose in life is to hack your limbs off.

Potions for strength, willpower, resists etc? Absolutely. But anything that increases your armor besides better armor as absurd and only benefits the ranged classes.

If you guys here are after "the realism", like firearms' range or clothes durability, then let's remove Guard completely or make every magic spell be a oneshot ability (at least that's how I imagine the magic works). Every proper armor debuff leaves cloth/light classes with 0 value even though they've used armor pot. And now you discuss to remove it. It's ridicolous.
I think changes like this must be started after we have the game in its stable endgame condition - with best gear and capped rr.