tank KB cd proportional to the duration.

[Bozzax]

yep immunities really should be affected by 'length' (duration of punt) just like other disablers.

short = short immunity
Long = long immunity

[roadkillrobin]

Standardization of abillities on classes that are very different from each other just doesn't work. Each class need to have special treatment even if they are mirrors and have simular mechanics a change the mirrored abillties on those classes have completly different impact on each of those classes.

[Tesq]

Personally as BG punt so mechanic dependent I would have its cooldown altered according to hate

Chosen/Kotbs core punt reduced to 10s, with super punt tactic CD increases to 20s

it have the same CD as even being more powerfull than iB but have a conditional would make it alredy between 15-20 sec range of CD (likely 17 so less than 20 as the pure progressive division would call for) , this window also offer the chance to build your hate and:

-in small scale the dark protector swap is totally possible and will help ya keep up the hate, tough once builded i hardly got lower than 70 on my BG, it's more problematic the beginning of the fight where you have def meccanic bound to hate and only the bg have lower performance as tank compared to others tank which do not translate over better performcanc in full hate in the def field.
-in mass scale the hate is always full unless you spam aoe attacks; and it stay anyway almost full.

Sounds like a decent change, I doubt it will cause any meta-shift tho.

I am against reduction of CD of weaker punts(SM/Blorc) however, due to how this will affect SCs. Lots of bad blorc/SMs running around spamming their Aoe punt and handing out free 30s of immunity already happens enough. Also makes it more difficult to take a keep because getting punted off the keep wall becomes more of an issue. If the duration of immunity timers was scaled with the strength of the punt I wouldn't have much of a gripe.

no one would, the aoe punt is not taken in consideration at least in my post because it's the aoe form of CC which for tanks are : stag, snare, punt.
the st punt have and will remain with 10 sec for right in da jiggle and 20 sec for ya missed me because 10 sec is in fact the cd of medium punt and ya missed me also add an additional effect;.The aoe punt balance it self by punt away guard and guarded unless you fit into the best position possible throw only some away etc, this enter into the gameplay/skill matter and thus i didn't taken it in consideration. If the aoe punt is far superior to the other aoe cc then that should be nerfed or other aoe cc should be buff up.

Standardization of abillities on classes that are very different from each other just doesn't work. Each class need to have special treatment even if they are mirrors and have simular mechanics a change the mirrored abillties on those classes have completly different impact on each of those classes.

they are thinked or they should in my opinion as a 3 arrow thay go in different direction with every on with is niche:
1 archetype own more raw group support with little st support, 1 archtype own more ST support which is more powerfull to balance what the first archetype that have raw g support does and for least a middle ground archtype. Moreover ragardelss the punt position it still give immunity aoe.

This is imo the direction of our tank (and where the tank balance failed) and a way to prevent have in the same party composition all the tools that tanks can offer: if we have 3 tank x side then the sum of all tanks utility with 2 tanks must be 2/3 over the total to always make you decide what gain and what loose. If these criteria are applied to both realm then the tank pick became a choice of party internal set up. Removing the obstacles that prevent this scalign of g-utility vs st utility to happen is the key for tank internal balance.

@regard immunity i think not,as i explained that's the factor which balance" be able to multiple KB " ppl in the same window of time while some tanks will have a better punt but just 1 in the same window of time:

With a 5 sec KB you can punt 3 ppl thus save 1 mate 3 times or save 3 different ppl OR both def/off assist a bit mutiple time.
This + aoe snare is enough to keep enemy at bay so the tieme should be the same even considering that this make a core KB in a middle ground between and aoe punt and a st punt, where the sum of GCD to punt 3x ppl is the same of the cd of a greater st punt.

[Gachimuchi]

One of the most reliable ways to secure a kill in a 6v6 situation is via punt (and all the things that come after it), having a 10 sec CD punt like on knight compared to say a 20 sec one on BG is massive.

Often times you will only have 1 super punt in a group, in a controlled environment you have offensive situations where you can use punts on a tank to try and secure a kill on a DPS/Healer or the other tank. problem with punting tanks is, if you can't get directly behind them and latency willing, you have a gigantic RNG factor to deal with via avoidance. Being able to try again in 10 seconds vs 20 is huge, not to mention there are multiple targets for punt, and ways to use it defensively as well..

Prospects for actually getting a kill off the back of a punt is poor. Unless you punt both tanks they will just guard swap.

[th3gatekeeper]

What happened to Az's idea of making the super punt tactic for KOBS and Chosen a 2H only option?

Wouldnt this solve a bit of your issue Tesq?

[Tesq]

Not really, punt would still be better than ib/bG and the core KB would still be 20 sec.
Tough well you will nerf chosen/kobs s+b

[7rere7]

Tanks will totally abuse punting if these changes are made even more so with distance immunities. The cd on punts are supposed to be atleast 20 secs so that tanks can carefully coordinate their punt target.

There's a lot of times when several tanks are in a SC or wb , punting will overwhelm the gameplay drastically.

If a short punt has cd and immunity dropped to 5 seconds , a tank can focus on one player and completely shut the player out by spam punts. By the time a target player punted gets back to proper position and target ,the player is ready to be punted again.

Super punts are not just given to classes they come with a price. BG super punt based on hate, Kotbs on a tactic.

[Luuca]

1. The Chosen Base Punt is so weak it's not even worth using unless you can punt them the 20 feet off a cliff to their deaths. A base Chosen Punt will not move a tank out of guard range. The KotBS "Super Punt", on the other hand, requires the Knight to get FAA clearance and NASA approval each time they use it.

2. The immunity to punt is so prevalent due to (as stated before) PuGs handing out free immunity because they can press a button that unless you are in an organized 6-man vs 6-man SC, you usually can't punt the SoB you need to when you need to.

3. Slotting the Hastened Dismissal tactic (aka the Chosen "super" punt) simply nets the Chosen the base punt of a KotBS and nothing more. Yes, it's good to have for Tor Anroc SC and for some Guard removal duties, but there are several better tactics a Chosen can run that, if you are the only chosen in your group, it's best to leave the punts to others.

If you are going to change the cooldown of the punt based upon the distance the punt sends the target, the Chosen base punt should not have a cooldown at all. I've seen people lag jump further than my base punt sends players.

All in all, i like the idea, but don't go thinking that Chosen have a great Punt and it makes them a great tank. It's just not the case. Chosen have many other abilities and tactics that make them a great tank but their punt is extremely weak and slotting a tactic to get another classes base punt is just as worthless.

Make the cooldowns of KB and Immunity based upon distance is fine. It will not, in any way, nerf the Chosen. It will be a hinderance to KotBS and it will be a benefit to the other tanks IMO.

If you really want to help all the tanks, make it so a target of a Punt that is Knocked Down cannot block, Dodge, or Parry a punt. This happens so many times that it's just sad. They are knocked down FFS, defenseless...

[Tesq]

-well it will nerf the chosen/kobs actually of 5 sec putting the super punt from 10 sec cd which is spam as hell for a super punt to 15 sec.

@7rere7 well my idea is leave the immunity to 20 sec the difference with a short kd and super punt it's that first thing first well the core KB is not toally useles, second the short KB is not worth to give 20 sec of immunity if it have a 20 sec cd, have a 5 sec CD but still giving a 20 sec immunity would be used more as a short interrupt and anyway also use all these KB takes global coldowns and positioning something that the tactic prevent by have 1 stronger punt. The punt will not buff, the super punt will be nerf of 5 sec in CD and the core short punt will have a place in the game. That's way i was against also make the duration of the immunity linked to the lengh that would make the CC way too spammy again. The strengh of the short KB should be in the times it can be used on different opponents while the superpunt remove for a long time 1 enemy from the fight.

With no immunity for the snare it would be too much change the immunity timer.

[Tankbeardz]

1. The Chosen Base Punt is so weak it's not even worth using unless you can punt them the 20 feet off a cliff to their deaths. A base Chosen Punt will not move a tank out of guard range. The KotBS "Super Punt", on the other hand, requires the Knight to get FAA clearance and NASA approval each time they use it.

2. The immunity to punt is so prevalent due to (as stated before) PuGs handing out free immunity because they can press a button that unless you are in an organized 6-man vs 6-man SC, you usually can't punt the SoB you need to when you need to.

3. Slotting the Hastened Dismissal tactic (aka the Chosen "super" punt) simply nets the Chosen the base punt of a KotBS and nothing more. Yes, it's good to have for Tor Anroc SC and for some Guard removal duties, but there are several better tactics a Chosen can run that, if you are the only chosen in your group, it's best to leave the punts to others.

If you are going to change the cooldown of the punt based upon the distance the punt sends the target, the Chosen base punt should not have a cooldown at all. I've seen people lag jump further than my base punt sends players.

All in all, i like the idea, but don't go thinking that Chosen have a great Punt and it makes them a great tank. It's just not the case. Chosen have many other abilities and tactics that make them a great tank but their punt is extremely weak and slotting a tactic to get another classes base punt is just as worthless.

Make the cooldowns of KB and Immunity based upon distance is fine. It will not, in any way, nerf the Chosen. It will be a hinderance to KotBS and it will be a benefit to the other tanks IMO.

If you really want to help all the tanks, make it so a target of a Punt that is Knocked Down cannot block, Dodge, or Parry a punt. This happens so many times that it's just sad. They are knocked down FFS, defenseless...

The knight punt without a tactic is equally as useless as the chosen.