Changelog 28/10/16

[Teefz]

Torquemadra

- Rebalanced critical stat values upon weapons.
- Swapped 4 and 5 piece set bonuses on Ruin, Annihilator and Mercenary sets.

While I may not agree, I do understand your point of the State stabilization thread. I just hope this set change is a one time thing. Basicly doing this will in some ways neglect the point of optimizing the character as you - in most cases - will have the same spec/gear setup r40/rr39 as you will at r40/rr70. I strongly hope that you guys are not taking this project down the "SWTOR road" with everyone running in the same gear, because as a player you will simply have to in order to compete on equal terms. This game sure had a lot of flaws, but different specs/gear setups is one of the things that made the characters in this game different to other games and this by all means is positive in my book anyway.

Do not get me wrong, I admire you guys for spending soo much time on this project and I will contiounsly support it. But as a dps I strongly disagree with this change, especially considering the ability to get higher % crit is considerably easier on one side than the other.

[StormX2]

Spoiler:

Tried this: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17747

People QQd because everyone cares more about crushing PUG groups than making a fun/balanced game for all.

"guard is fine" "L2P"

I guess im just curious, at what point does the game get, where people realize that maybe creating an "organized-only" game probably isnt the best idea, that there should be a healthy balance between content for casual players, who may not have a guild, or may not have a bunch of friends online 24/7, but who want to play SCs and RVR?

Guard is one of the most pivotal abilities in the game, yet is rarely ever used except by a handful of skilled tanks, or in premade groups (both in SC/RVR) and its one of the biggest "gatekeepers" in making this game more accessible to all players.

As a MDPS, you are essentially forced into finding a guild, begging for a "guard bot" otherwise the game really isnt all that fun, hence ALL the comments about this game being so RDPS friendly... Everything stems around guard as being one of the pivotal key roles in MDPS avoidance.

Being a tank, and maining a tank, I would LOVE to see guard adjusted to be more friendly and intuitive to all players. The only solution I have seen proposed by seasoned players is "/tell them how to guard" or "write some guides on the forums". Its frankly a joke.

Id love to see some rework to guard, even if it meant something like guard turning into an "aura" where any party member inside 30 feet split damage with the tank. Or Guard being an "active" ability that is cast providing aoe mitigation rather than damage split, or a myriad of other "versions" where it still fills the SAME role but is more "PUG" friendly and MDPS friendly so a player CAN join a random warband in RVR as a MDPS and expect to be able to be viable without having to beg for guard or out of party heals...

Just my 2 cents from an NA player who has struggled to find active committed players to play with. I know many people disagree, because any deviation from "thats not how it was on LIVE bro" is seen as a threat to their glory days and the ability to re-live what once was....

Most will state that Guard is pretty OP, especially when the range was further than intended. I have no idea what would be the solution, but I too would like to see something different in place. However, adding another OP Aura is just a no go.

I am in the same boat as you, I primarily play a Tank in NA Nights, and I primarily play with my guildies. We are recruiting if interested.

COnfused about one thing though, you seem to be against being "forced" into a guild for a Guard Bot, but seem all for being "Forced" Into a guild for the siege changes.

Spoiler:

Working from he bottom up,

I am not at all against being forced into a guild, in fact I JUST posted this morning in this thread (on page 2) that I am glad they made it so T4 ram can only be used by guilds and that this would encourage more people to guild and that is one PART of the problem - people who dont guild and I think MORE content needs to be "gated" in this way.

That said, I have a lot of sympathy for the "average" players who come home from a long day of work and just want to get on WAR and do a few quick SCs, or see if any RVR is going to relax, have FUN, and do something less "serious". Many times I fall into this camp myself. Weekends I can be more "die hard" but after a 10-12 hour work day, the last thing I want to do (SOMETIMES) is get online and then beg players to group up, get in TS/discord/nameyourcoms and then play. Many nights I get on, I get 2-3 people and we sit around in IC for 25 minutes trying to fill spots with competent people and end up doing a TRIO Q or something instead.

Or what about times where maybe you decide to play at 5am when NONE of your guild is online, you cant do ANYTHING because you dont know anyone. Normally as a tank, I just find a decent Mara or someone to do my thing with, but ive also played the "other side" with both playing a BW and Mara myself to understand the different roles (id recommend doing this to ANY tank out there btw) and its really pathetic how unplayable classes can be without a team. I dont want to drag this into a "class balance" thing, but just saying I leveled my Mara ONLY through PVP and I literally was given guard less than 5 times and I asked for it in EVERY match I played, I even would follow the tanks around in the off chance they would use it. It was really sad. What made me perma retire my Mara was doing a PUG warband. No out of party healing, no tanks guarding, we spent easily 30min+ and wiped countless times.

Anyways, to the point, guard is a very pivotal role in MDPS and overall DPS mitigation. The current form demands coordination and selflessness on the part of the tank, to the point that the majority of the time you play, if you are not in a premade group, it never works.

This alienates new players who dont understand this, or even casual players who want to just get on and do a few SCs casually, or even low population times/guilds/players who maybe CANT put a full party together, etc.

I am not trying to make it a "PUG ability" or "EZmode" or anything like that, hence my thread, asking for ideas from the community. Rather than ideas, it got the same old "L2P" garbage. I think the community here has massive creative power and I bet SOMEONE could come up with a genius idea on how to make guard more intuitive and easier to impact a group, to allow players who are NOT the tank, to be able to have some "control" over if they can be protected by the tank themselves. Many "modern" games put this responsibility on BOTH parties - the tank and the "protected" where as in WAR the majority of that responsibility falls on the tank himself. Using a great example - Reinhardt from Overwatch has a massive shield he can use to protect himself from damage, but also if his allies CHOSE they can hide behind him to also take advantage. This "guard" helps the tank himself reduce damage and also offers protection to allies who CHOOSE to accept it.

Contrast to guard here, the tank and the tank ALONE has the job of casting guard on an ally and THEN also the tank and tank ALONE has the job of staying withing 30 feet of him... This gives the players that NEED the protection (DPS) zero control over their ability to take advantage of a tank in their party. This is what I would HOPE to change...

EITHER, make it give a selfish benefit to the tank, so that he WANTS to use it more and has personal selfish incentive to do so, OR you could make it more passive/aura like so that a MDPS who WANTS protection and run behind or close to a tank and get some benefits without the tank being responsible. These are just ideas, im sure others can come up with better.

believe it or not, I don't disagree with you for most of this. I read this whole thread, that was what i was referencing to, where one part you sound happy for pushing guild play, and another time seemingly contradicting it. But I understand your points, as I am literally in the same boat.

Ive been on this game since lvl cap was 9, you cant seriously think I only play a Chosen right? There is a good reason why I rarely play my Slayer and that's because mine is designed for a specific group, anywhere else its dead meat. Same with my sorc =) You may really want to play your Choppa 24/7 but unless you make some moves and get in with a proper group, then It's just masochism to keep going into RvR expecting a different result.

Your last few points are the exact reason why I made my Chosen my first priority. 1: It helps me make a solid foundation for my guild to build off of, 2: in a world of selfish players, who don't Hold the Line and use Guard Effectively, I wanted to be the one that others rely on. I wasnt always a selfless team player, considering I mained a Sorc on Live, and didnt know the first thing about Tanking in PvP as a Ultility Tank rather than just another flashy DPS who apply's Snares liberally

Running SC's with Regicide helped me to open my eyes to the Way of the Tank

[Taranthula]

Tell you what: I will log on a melee-train premade, you log with several rDPS pugs, and let's see what happens.

rDPS needs a group too. The thing is that they perform much better than mDPS in a PUG vs PUG situation, and that's what most people seem to be complaining about.

Also, where is your source that 90% of the dps population is playing rDPS? You even underlined it and called it a FACT, i'm sure you must have some pretty solid evidence, right?

Fair enough Now try your premade melee-train vs a premade rdps, and return with the results.

[Olszewski]

I Agree with Teefz here. Wuts the point of lair gear now? Just for looks? I might not use it but im 100% sure other ppl do. I loved the option of being able to test and wear mixed gear and be different.

[Penril]

Fair enough Now try your premade melee-train vs a premade rdps, and return with the results.

Given equal skill on both sides? Probably a pretty balanced fight. rDPS group won't stomp by any means.

[Jaycub]

Swapping out a single piece of ruin/ann for an off piece w/ 2/3% crit on it is hardly what I would call diversity.

Lair gear was always about fashion hammer :^), not to mention you can do the lairs with 3 ppl and you don't even need a tank. Can do it with 2 ppl actually with the right setup.

There never was any real gear diversity on live either, until Sov+ and even then it's choice A or B. IDK maybe I play too much ARPG were gear is super defining and I won't ever be satisfied with what this game or most MMO's have to offer in that regard.

[bloodi]

Just because you think so? How you can prove?

Well, where is your proof of rpds annihilating everyone?

[Jaycub]

Probably a pretty balanced fight. rDPS group won't stomp by any means.

Just because you think so? How you can prove?

6v6 meta for years on live, and up until proc meta on here MDPS or melee train groups dominated always. I don't even get where this idea of RDPS being better than MDPS comes from unless we are talking PUG vs PUG which RDPS does dominate in, or large scale ORvR fighting.

[Lualyrr]

I Agree with Teefz here. Wuts the point of lair gear now? Just for looks? I might not use it but im 100% sure other ppl do. I loved the option of being able to test and wear mixed gear and be different.

I just found the reason for the lair crit gear nerf in the old chat logs, blame the russians!!!

[th3gatekeeper]

believe it or not, I don't disagree with you for most of this. I read this whole thread, that was what i was referencing to, where one part you sound happy for pushing guild play, and another time seemingly contradicting it. But I understand your points, as I am literally in the same boat.

Ive been on this game since lvl cap was 9, you cant seriously think I only play a Chosen right? There is a good reason why I rarely play my Slayer and that's because mine is designed for a specific group, anywhere else its dead meat. Same with my sorc =) You may really want to play your Choppa 24/7 but unless you make some moves and get in with a proper group, then It's just masochism to keep going into RvR expecting a different result.

Your last few points are the exact reason why I made my Chosen my first priority. 1: It helps me make a solid foundation for my guild to build off of, 2: in a world of selfish players, who don't Hold the Line and use Guard Effectively, I wanted to be the one that others rely on. I wasnt always a selfless team player, considering I mained a Sorc on Live, and didnt know the first thing about Tanking in PvP as a Ultility Tank rather than just another flashy DPS who apply's Snares liberally

Running SC's with Regicide helped me to open my eyes to the Way of the Tank

Exactly. I havnt been here as long, but I came when lvl cap was 32. Played both Order and Destro tanks (main was Knight on Order then Chosen on destro) and also dinked around with a BW and a Mara as I explained above.

You are exactly right. I love my chosen, but my Mara and BW are literalyl unplayable unless we get a full premade. One of the main reasons I main a tank are that noone plays them correct, so (like you) I like to be someone my team can rely on, but ALSO there are many times I play various hours and because I dont have a party, I dont have the luxury of being a DPS class. I have tried healers but its really just not for me... Not even DPS AM, I just hated it.

Anyways, thank you for understanding and being someone who looks logically at this as well who IS a live player who isnt just repeating the same mantra on here "It worked fine on LIVE bro, L2P".

I think LIVE was different for 2 major reasons, and its why I think it needs a change for ROR:
1) Population. Anytime you got on, there were TONS of people playing WAR, it was a much more active place than it is now, with many non-peak times completely dead. You log in when its not your guilds "peak hours" and GL doing anything that requires coordination.

2) Different gaming "era". WAR was released back in the old school vanilla WoW days. What people wanted from a game back then is WAY different than what people want today. WoW was amazing back then, 6 hour + raids to still not even finish MC... I loved that stuff. I also was in college and had 6 hours + time to spend. Now, all those SAME gamers who did that stuff, likely have demanding jobs, wives, kids, etc that all pull at their time. The kids that age who DO have the time for this, it doesnt appeal to them to play an alpha stages game that requires immense coordination. Ill get off my soap box, but morale of the story is, I think what the players want from a game are totally different than what they wanted 10 years ago. I feel that "guard" in ROR is one of those relics that has just so happened to survive, due to the nature of this alpha project resurrecting an older game. If this game truly were designed fresh from the ground up, I can guarantee you any development team would not invent something like the "guard" we have today and for good reasons.

All I ask is that the DEV team consider these points, and I HOPE we can get some good thoughts in the thread I created(viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17747)
trying to have positive conversation about this topic. I really think if ROR wants to BOOM, like I know it could, and not just be a small niche game for guys who used to play LIVE, this is ONE of the areas that needs attention because it makes the game too limiting in what you can or cant do, all based on things outside your control.