Alternate Engie/Magus Pet Bonuses

[Karast]

We were discussing this internally and dropped the idea.

The ideas we floated:

- Reapplication: Rejected because it promotes that god damn group cleanse (abbreviated to GDGC from this point on). If there's a % chance to reapply, the incentive is there to run double WP/double DoK with GDGC on both.
- Reducing the duration and interval of the DoTs: Rejected for same reasons as previous.
- Dumping x% of the remaining damage on the target of a cleansed DoT instantly: Rejected because it was felt to be targeting GDGC too much and to be risky with CW.
- Dumping a flat amount of damage per DoT cleansed on the cleanser: Rejected for same reasons as previous.
- Armor penetration/increased white damage: Doesn't fit either Grenadier or Tinkerer concept.

As you can see, that god damn group cleanse needs to be dealt with in some manner before we can do much here. Frankly, I think both AoE effect application and AoE cleansing of any type should require some kind of skill, risk or setup.

How about doing it a little differently.

What about flame turret / flame turret attacks applying a debuff to increase enemy crit chance, or decrease enemy avoidance.

or going in a different direction and increasing defensive stats, for example splitting incoming damage with the turret scaling per stack to up to 40%, with an increase in pet HP. I think a tactic like this exists already so it might be easier to try.

For grenade turret how about a big increase in the grenade turrets damage per stack, up to the point at 8 that is does heavy aoe spike centered around it's target.

[porkstar]

Can't see anyone removing the range buff for a chance to have a semi-potent dot reapplied.

Also tinkerer/demonology is mostly insta casts so i don't see how that change would benefit.

I understand your point that with so many 1s skills and GCD that this buff would be weak as well but maybe it could reduce cool downs on skills and turret abilities as well.

[Genisaurus]

I wrote this somewhere a while ago, but I forget where and can't find it in my post history:

The engi class is one of the few where the different mastery trees encourage radically different playstyles. I'd like to see the different engi turrets compliment these playstyles specifically.

Rifleman: stationary, single target, long range DPS. The gun turret grants a stacking damage and range buff as it currently does, to both the turret itself and the engineer. Value at 4% - could be higher, but I'd rather see the base damage of rifleman abilities improved instead.

Grenadier: mobile, AoE, medium range DPS. The bombardier turret is replaced with an automated Battlebrew Backpack, which throws grenades at enemies as the turret does. It is in effect an invisible, untargetable NPC that moves with the engineer. No passive buffs, though maybe it makes Firebomb cast-on-the-move.

Tinkerer: stationary, AoE, short range point defense. The flame turret grants a stacking 4% damage reduction buff, applied to both the turret and the engineer.

Just ideas, while this discussion is still in the ****-shooting phase.

[ToXoS]

I don't think making the classes more mobile is a good idea tbh.
But the idea of making the flame turret/blue horror grant a stackable 4% damage reduction buff is good imo.

[Grunbag]

Why flame turret would not give armor, wounds or toughness buff ? It would fit the path where engineer supposed to be close . I don't ha even idea for grenader yet.

[Glorian]

I don't think making the classes more mobile is a good idea tbh.
But the idea of making the flame turret/blue horror grant a stackable 4% damage reduction buff is good imo.

Find also good. Tinkerer is allways in the thick of it. And Tinkerer doesnt need reduced cast times, or Range.

- Reapplication: Rejected because it promotes that god damn group cleanse (abbreviated to GDGC from this point on). If there's a % chance to reapply, the incentive is there to run double WP/double DoK with GDGC on both.
- Reducing the duration and interval of the DoTs: Rejected for same reasons as previous.

So improved Damage of Engi-Dot, or reduced duration and increased tic would lead Destro to field more Doks and Order to field more WP to counter that if I understand you correctly.
So if you increase cooldown of GDGC?
Would this also lead to the desire to take more Doks/WPs?

[Tesq]

i think the pet should amplyfy what engi/magus get for base and not give additionals funtionality.

the simpliest form its the range and damages increase that it was patched server side some times ago.

things like having mid path for both classes be castable on the move etc are stuff that should be dirrectly implemented on those mastery skills and not linked directly on pet--> this would otherwise limit them to pet area alredy cutting a alredy short leg but it could be done .

for exemple:
-if you have a X active deamoin/turret then you have Y effec-->"could" be fine
-if you are in X range of an Y deamoin/turret then you have Z effect---> this is not fine.

Other things to take into consideration regard the pets it's the cast time and the resummon

A) either 2 sec but castable on the move

or

B) castable staying still but 1 sec cast time

+

C) resummon should cost no AP but maybe have a very low cast time on the move like 0.5 or 1 sec

@ i am against the idea of make magus/engi more durable; if you can keep up a bw/sorc then you can keep up a magus/engi which they even have alredy more armor.
If you really wanna boost their survability than make those armor buff from enchantemt type to "buff type" prevent them to be removeable and make that single resistence buff stackable with chosen/kobs aura; this way you also achive countering those pesky resistences debuff that these classes give and that favour bw/sorc meta leave every ppl with just 0-20% damage reduction for magic damages of those type.

[porkstar]

I wrote this somewhere a while ago, but I forget where and can't find it in my post history:

The engi class is one of the few where the different mastery trees encourage radically different playstyles. I'd like to see the different engi turrets compliment these playstyles specifically.

Grenadier: mobile, AoE, medium range DPS. The bombardier turret is replaced with an automated Battlebrew Backpack, which throws grenades at enemies as the turret does. It is in effect an invisible, untargetable NPC that moves with the engineer. No passive buffs, though maybe it makes Firebomb cast-on-the-move.

I remember playing my engie in T1 early days of RoR when firebomb was bugged and cast on move. It was amazing and actually opened up a kiting engie play-style. If engies could use barbed wire with the snare tactic, throwing arm and cast on move firebomb, this would be an extremely fun experiment. Possibly OP?

Although perhaps the "back pack" could still take damage along with the engineer?

[peterthepan3]

Honestly survivability is not an issue for either of these classes, but if I were to suggest a buff around tinkerer/demonology it would be something to do with group survivability/mitigation.

[Gobtar]

Grenadier: mobile, AoE, medium range DPS. The bombardier turret is replaced with an automated Battlebrew Backpack, which throws grenades at enemies as the turret does. It is in effect an invisible, untargetable NPC that moves with the engineer. No passive buffs, though maybe it makes Firebomb cast-on-the-move.

Replace Bombadier with Dwarf Sapper with battle brew backback, or mini-gyrocopter (Drone)? Stacks are damage based, but this pet should be buffed to do greatest amount of damage among other turrets, it's auto attacks are Corp based. Stacks increase damage of player, and increases the AA speed of the pet, playing into the sustainted damage nature of the middle tree
-Self-Destruct/Instability is not available to this pet.(?)
Note this style of play will always be tricky due to needing to stop to cast, and as such will never surpass the mobility of a SW/SH. Adds the complexity of now controlling a mobile pet, yet has the reward for such risks by having increased damage potential, while the pet itself becomes a larger factor into the DPS contribution.

The Bombard will be used for offensive minded PBAoE Tinkerers as well, while the Flame Turret should be a tanking/distraction/Defensive pet.

Reasoning: Gun Turret is your sniper's spotter, armour debuff acts as tracing rounds to line up shots, need to be static, Grenadier is a mobile spec not a dot spec (the heavy dots come from Riflemen), while the gun turret debuffs for the engi, the engi needs to debuff for the bombard. the turret's current static position and later "buff" made this spec counter intuitive.

For Magus, just buff the Flamer becomes mobile, buff his damage and mirror.