New Shammy Changes

[roadkillrobin]

@Jaycub Well its deffintly not a buff to the spec is it? On a class that allready struggling in orvr compared to the other healers.And especially in keep sieges were you actually get shot at by 20+ people from on top of the balcony. Able to supress this fire without the chanse of getting interupted or having to stand still to cast and give people a chance to just get out of line of sight is a pretty big deal. I didn't ignore anything. You always have 5 stacks ready to cast this coz you're healing on every GCD wich you have to do to keep people alive when people have cannons that hit people for 1800 consistantly. What hes talking about is the opposite. Were people complained about not having instant ress or instant groupheal while in healing spec coz that never happens.

[Gortoon]

please open a vote or a threat about changes on shammans before you go on with those changes. We already have only a few shammans playing as main toons. Does not matter how much i try those changes, i cannot like them and in no way i can see them as a buff to the class. unfortunatelly for me, maybe in joy to many i will have to change my main toon from shammy to another class if those changes come live.

Want to help the class? Fix the ap drain pool by making some abbilities cost less, or buff the amount of heal or dps the abbilities can do.

fix the sticky feets that sometimes do not cast normally and the abbility is not applied on the ground but the abbility is getting on a cooldown.

by the way why boost heal when on waaagh to others and make it lees to self? that is pointing us to try not to have waaagh points.

you can forward changes like that? ofc you can since you choose. do we have to like them? ofc not.
sry but no. give me back my broken healer and either find other ways to boost it, or let it the way it is. even better talk about it.
ofc you can tell me who am i to tell you. noone ofc. just noone.

thanks anyway.

[Tesq]

it fix the mad but they slow you overall, which make these fix give the same results of the base meccanic

the base meccanic allow you to spam 1 g-heal OR use 5 offensive skill+ 1 g-heal in the same time.
so for exemple 4-5 dot and 1 g-heal take still the same time than cast and spam only g-heals.

Now ppl are botherd cuz instead of ap economy problem( which is still present some times) , slow meccanic gain (still present) and mad they have to stick to, not have acces to cast time reduction which make impossible stick to hybdrid play because you're too slow at cast stuff + still ap economy problem and + to slow to build meccanic.

Viceversa g-heal spammer now slighter benefith from for g-heal spam cuz while they now have more tools, in between enemy burst they can use these tools better.

Since the healing only part of am/shammy was not a problem but it was use the meccanic in a way hybdrid even if they remain heal or DD. The changes just make better the heal part of the class fixing the mad of life tap and make them useable also providing an aoe lifetap. This totally viceversa break the hybrd meccanic to the core as for play hibryd you need to do both things in same time that's why there was a cast time reduction. Or to better say healer that want use damage as healing tool now can properly, if they hit; offensive ppl that want cast g-heal while they also play offensivly cant.

You had buff healing am/shammy but you just made em like a dok/wp. In the end the aoe lifetap can be used and it is as a aoe hot (just like dok/wp) which it was needed anywa but the g-heal have the longest cast time in game if you remove the itiemization and so the bonus that allow you to cast in half time you have a even more slower classes than before. Basically you heal better but you take more to heal so you end with the same results as the old meccanic as said it get a little better if you aoe lifetap "hit" the enemys but being it not undefitable make it hard in hold the line situation.

Also for not g-heal spammer they could easily cast g-heals on the move or in 0,5 sec make it not interruptable or even using it while kiting prevent wb from die, now you cant, you are forced to stay still for 2.5 sec cos there is no cast time reduction. If you add the chosen/kobs aura that get even worst 2.75 sec to cast one aoe heal).

All the changes that were used for solve the mad are good, but the ap need to be bound to the meccanic point till a 100% ap reduction with 5 stack and the meccanic gain and use it's still too slow. The interation between skill with longer cast time it's and meccanic it's still horrible cuz they provide the same number of point, jsut 1 instead 1 x every 0,5/1 sec.
Aoe heal on the move cannot be loose , it's litteraly what this classes should shine with dok/wp best g-heal under pressure , rune/zealot best st heal under pressure.

[Qwack]

When War originally came out the Shammy/AM was planned to be a true hybrid class. That’s why so much gear, weapons, items had a mix of Willpower/Intell. In practice it didn't work and generally people ended up playing as either full Heal or full DPS. Willpower got wasted on DPS gear. Intell got wasted on heal gear.

Since these new changes appear geared for a hybrid playstyle, I would like to suggest again that if the 20% heal debuff is removed from the tactic Divine Fury, I think a true hybrid playstyle can finally come forth. I can see using a tactic setup like DF, Mork Watchin (damage crit), Discipline (willpower buff) and any number of heal tactics to fill in the 4th. It would open up the game to a wider variety of gear that was formally avoided. It would allow for better mixes of the mastery trees. It would encourage more Waaagh management and usage. A heal spec could slot DF and use Bleed Fer Me more effectively. A DPS spec could use the above tactics and actually do some legitimate (not strong) healing. If a player want to full spec one way or the other still, no harm done. If a player wants to go real hybrid, this is the way. While it only raises my Group Heal from about 700 to 870, its still just enough to consider more heals in my DPS game.

Thoughts?

[adei]

please open a vote or a threat about changes on shammans before you go on with those changes. We already have only a few shammans playing as main toons. Does not matter how much i try those changes, i cannot like them and in no way i can see them as a buff to the class. unfortunatelly for me, maybe in joy to many i will have to change my main toon from shammy to another class if those changes come live.

Want to help the class? Fix the ap drain pool by making some abbilities cost less, or buff the amount of heal or dps the abbilities can do.

fix the sticky feets that sometimes do not cast normally and the abbility is not applied on the ground but the abbility is getting on a cooldown.

by the way why boost heal when on waaagh to others and make it lees to self? that is pointing us to try not to have waaagh points.

you can forward changes like that? ofc you can since you choose. do we have to like them? ofc not.
sry but no. give me back my broken healer and either find other ways to boost it, or let it the way it is. even better talk about it.
ofc you can tell me who am i to tell you. noone ofc. just noone.

thanks anyway.

As a quick note, if you don't like the changes and this goes to everyone who thinks that it's a 'nerf', you are free to turn the experimental mode off and continue playing the shaman/am as it was before.

[Gortoon]

i know my friend i am just afraid that that is where we are heading and i am afraid of the dark road and the wall on the end.

still i am going to keep trying and still give feedback.

[roadkillrobin]

please open a vote or a threat about changes on shammans before you go on with those changes. We already have only a few shammans playing as main toons. Does not matter how much i try those changes, i cannot like them and in no way i can see them as a buff to the class. unfortunatelly for me, maybe in joy to many i will have to change my main toon from shammy to another class if those changes come live.

Want to help the class? Fix the ap drain pool by making some abbilities cost less, or buff the amount of heal or dps the abbilities can do.

fix the sticky feets that sometimes do not cast normally and the abbility is not applied on the ground but the abbility is getting on a cooldown.

by the way why boost heal when on waaagh to others and make it lees to self? that is pointing us to try not to have waaagh points.

you can forward changes like that? ofc you can since you choose. do we have to like them? ofc not.
sry but no. give me back my broken healer and either find other ways to boost it, or let it the way it is. even better talk about it.
ofc you can tell me who am i to tell you. noone ofc. just noone.

thanks anyway.

As a quick note, if you don't like the changes and this goes to everyone who thinks that it's a 'nerf', you are free to turn the experimental mode off and continue playing the shaman/am as it was before.

I think everyone is aware of that, we're talking about it as constructive feedback and what effect it would have on the game if thesee changes would go live.

[adei]

I think everyone is aware of that, we're talking about it as constructive feedback and what effect it would have on the game if thesee changes would go live.

That is why I said 'A quick note' - A lot of naysayers that do not like it for their personal playstyle that might not know that this option is available to them.

As someone who plays with a shaman that has always played hybrid I can do nothing but thumbs up the changes, works well for roaming, more mobility and more playstyle variants, combined with the knight change seems to offer some good buffs to the hybrid shaman.

[noisestorm]

You cannot honestly tell me and be serious, that you think the healing did not improve at all?
Solo target in your group gets focused for example:

Old mechanic - You throw your 2 Hots on your ally(+maybe gork'll fix it) and spam single heals with a 2 sec interval. Giving you (averaged out) 2x300 hp for the hots + 1.3k singleheals every 2 seconds, for a total HPS of 850 (with 600 heal/3 seconds = 200/1s and 1.3k/2s = 650/1s)
Assuming your target is healdebuffed this value goes down to 425 hps

New mechanic - You throw your 2 Hots on your ally(+maybe gork'll fix it) and spam (2x at the start)ITT+Singleheals in a 1.2 sec interval.
Giving you (assuming you using both hots starting from 2 mechanic) 2x300 hp for the hots + 2x (to balance out the mechanic) ITT every 1.2 sec for 900heal/1.2s or 750 hps = 950 hps. Healdebuffed this value will remain at 850 hps though, because lifetap is untouched by healdebuffs!

After that when you alternate between Singleheal and Lifetap it will look like: 200hps from hots and averaged for 1.3k/1.2s + 900/1.2s = 2.2k/2.4s = 915 hps which totals to 1115 hps or rather 745 while your target is healdebuffed.

If i compare new to old output its more than 50% increase in hps new to old. I also know that this is very theoretical and like someone said situations are more chaotic. But exactly this is where the rise of the skillcap is located at. Properly playing the mechanic at any given time and situation. Just because some of you simply dont want to adapt, doesnt make the mechanic a nerf. If you look at a situation where you are pressured and need to move your healing will be off even better than before, since you are no longer reduced to simply using Hots and Cleanses, but you can even have unmitigated direct heal on the move on top of your consistent hotting.

[Ghostweed]

@Az

Well, its not a pure buff for dps shamy and i show u why

1) u got only 1 no cd skill - BB on 2s cast and pretty cheep ap wise (30). Then u got 2 5s cd skills - big waagh ("BW" cheap and fast 1s 35ap), Waagh is comin ("WC" slow and expensive bomb 2s 55ap). And finally u got 11sec cd channel Bunch of Waagh ("BoW" cheap 13ap/sec).

2) So here we are trying to kill someone. Standing still and spam BB:

a) w/o solid frontline is suicide even with new stuff (i save 0,8 sec and 12ap on cast.
b) If i can act like a turret then the new mech. is a strong buff - i spam BB with occasional BW+WC.

But that aint the real stuff as there is always some pesky WL or such on ur tail.

3a) Dps with opposition the old style - its a Chaos! U pre dot ur target, then pre hot urself, ap leech, debuff and then ur rotation for db looks like: Insta infused BB (toughness debuff), split second BoW, BW, detaunt, bubble, re ap leech, hot, (BW/BB), BoW for kill. Thing is that ur dots should take 1/2 of hp, then u crit with BoW/BB (mostly around 1000).

3b) DPS with opposition new style - nothing change on the first look. But ur dot/hot are stronger and bit cheaper. But whats ur opener? Infused BB on 1,2 sec static cast? That pesky WL is on top of u! Detaunt aint gona help! Well lets try it for sake of simlicity and comparsion.

4) The numbers! What do they mean?!

a) old style dps rotation is for 126ap (bb+2xbw+2xbow) with clear time of 2,2sec+finishing bow! (2x1s bw+0,2 for split second bow)
b) new style is for 18 (bb) + 42 (2xbw) + 15,6 (2xbow) = 75,6 ap (rly nice!) with clear cast time of
1,2 (bb) + 1,2 (2xbw) + 0,2 (bow split second stay at same casting speed) = 2,6 sec+finishing bow.

We can see that in ideal state we get significant ap cost reduction for slight cast time increase. More ap in bank = more fun? Well not rly.
We saved 50 ap which is like 1 gheal, but we put ourselves in risk due to the static and long cast of the opener ((bb 1,2s). If our Ap leech is disturbed then this new mech. can save our rotation and life but we can also become dead due to the KDs/M1/root etc.
Our cast time is longer by 0,4 sec or lets say 1 GCD, which we can translate into 1 free cast time for situational cast.

5) ORVR moral pump through Get off and WC gets gimped - we have to put ourself in greater risk under to walls because of greater cast times (1,2 s on both WC/GO).
AMs moral pump gets buffed due to the nature of AM moral pump (more heals=more moral).