Patchnotes 07/10/16

[Azarael]

This is still a large faction balance affecting change that we as a community should have been able to put our 2 cents in on before implementing

Optional mechanic changes is one thing

this is something else

if its gonna be done like this they why even have balance forums az?

This isn't a vote or a democracy and never was. The balance forums exist for a reason, and they will be used for the majority of things. What I was not interested in is exactly what's going on in this thread (and in game): people judging changes based on theorycraft and 10 minutes of in game time and players of classes which were subject to a nerf spinning the nerf as something absolutely devastating.

If I had put the AM/Shaman changes straight to the balance forum instead of to the internal testers, half the community would have tried to block based on theorycraft, accusations that I was trying to give the players something they didn't want, accusations that I was fuelling my own hybrid agenda, etc. I'm not interested in entertaining that. The changes are live, and just because the root changes don't have an experimental tag, this doesn't mean that they're set in stone.

As ever, I will be watching what actually happens, rather than what people are saying. If FoF and Ensnare magically stop performing their function of allowing you to catch up to ranged characters with a melee train (which they won't have), then fine. But a number of people in this thread are already applying insane amounts of spin to what was a no-brainer change to an ability which had way too many advantages and way too few drawbacks for an M1, and having seen all this before over the course of a number of years, I don't have patience for spin.

You will have the best chance of persuasion with me if you can demonstrate exactly how the changes impact upon the utility of FoF and Ensnare in a way which renders them weaker than a M1 should be, assuming competent play.

[Jaycub]

I expected a little better from you in particular, man.

The function of FoF and Ensnare is absolutely satisfied. Until you strike that target, it is the same ability - a 65ft 10 second root which cannot be cleansed other than by root breakers.

Once you catch that target with your train, you snare them, knock them down, whatever. At that point, the job is done. The only thing that stops is being able to wail upon that target while they have been completely deprived of movement control for 10 seconds.

In a 6v6 sure, but lets say you are at the top of the hill in Toranroc, we are beating on a target and not really getting anywhere and at that point I decide it's time to look for a juicy ensnare target. I see an AM way outta position up too close to the front line and i call it and drop ensnare on him. But random sorc/magus aoe breaks the root before our chosen can get to him to apply KD and hes gone. It's even worse in massive RvR fighting, where in particular this morale was a huge reason you brought WL/Mara in the 1st place now it's easily swapped out for another RDPS.

Now ensnare can only really be used if you are gonna go for some RDPS/Healer who off in africa completely away from fighting, and you still have to hope and pray that no one in the off group decides to start damaging him until your KD gets there.

I just don't like the random aspect of root breaks on damage at all, morale or not. I thought morales were supposed to be like trump cards, i just don't see myself using the root M1's anymore where before I would never think twice about slotting anything else.


I'm not saying REEEE Change it back, just saying I have RNG tied to morales.

[Azarael]

But random sorc/magus aoe breaks the root before our chosen can get to him to apply KD and hes gone.

It is possible to exclude AoE damage from breaking the effect, though this has dangers all its own.

I just don't like the random aspect of root breaks on damage at all, morale or not.

I actually agree with that, and I suggested internally the idea of roots simply tracking incoming damage and breaking after a set amount.

[Jaycub]

Roots breaking on a damage threshold would be amazing

[Azarael]

Create a topic somewhere if you like or just discuss it here. I doubt there will be much opposition to the idea and I would love to get rid of RNG.

[Jaycub]

Biggest thing would be deciding how much damage it would be, flat or based on a percentage of HP etc...

[Teefz]

I like the fact you guys start out with these four classes because they are bottom of the foodchain in their respective category. I must admit though, I don't know whether to cry or laugh of sheer fear. On the one hand I like the approach you guys are taking with adding options revolve around experimental changes and the way you allow the players to pick and choose for now. Well done. I haven't had the option of testing out the shaman .ab ex yet, but I look forward to. On my other theorycrafting hand I still do not see how this will fix the problem of the shammies in groups. But it is worth a shot.

As far as the engi/magus changes, I'm guessing the goal is to make people show same kind of fear towards engi/magis as the other rdps in the game. I understand the part with seeing how far you can push the bar until people whine too much about it and then try too adjust accordingly. But honestly I must agree with Toldavf, this feels way too excessive. Also, if engi/magus/pet's/turrets starts having 150ft range, it would make sense that cloth healers detaunt is 150ft as well I think?

The root changes, I guess I'm naturally biased towards because I play RDPS/healer mostly. From my pov I like that this will make the 2/2/2 setup not rely as heavily on the mara/wls m1. It will still be viable and now gives the recieving end a bigger chance to fight back. I agree that that the mara/wl should be able to break on damage, as it was way stronger then Rock Clutch. Which didn't make sense in my book. Speaking of hard CC, I'm guessing the KotBS m3 still do 1200 AOE dmg? If that is the case I'm guessing you could argue that the fact it breaks now makes it less OP, but the little theorycrafter in my head fears that in large scale fights, these root morales will become slightly useless because everything is already being nuked from 150ft-225ft away. and/or breaks from random aoe.

Thanks for the patch notes, going to give it a shot!

[TenTonHammer]

Roots breaking on a damage threshold would be amazing

i second this sentiment if nothing else bar the fact that i always prefer consistency over RNG

[7rere7]

one of my mains is a magus .The stacks of increased spell range makes a lot of sense ! Rifting and still maintain full pet damage bonus seems viable now. Nicely done

Edit : could be off topic but is about "1 morale root" so prob ok ,if not ,I apologize and ignore.
Champions Challenge when used roots enemy target but occasionally enemy target is out of combat range when rooted. Tends to be a little annoying when that happens,just a thought

[hulkhug]

I think giving magus/engineer more damage if those players want it a great idea. Question is, is their defense or cc/utility going to be lowered to compensate the damage increase?

Shaman/AM is good change as previous mechanic was useless to say the least. People should stop complaining about shaman cleansing as shaman can cleanse some things AM can not and vice versa. This game is not about 1v1 mirror but about faction balance and when I say balance I mean that faction plays as intended which was always destro=aggressive, order=defensive.