Shaman builds, RR, etc.

[roadkillrobin]

Since I mained Shammy for a long timee until i gave it up for not being competative eenough in the post rr81+ Patches i know pretty much all the tricks there are. I've tested almoast every single defensive setup with, armor, tughness,wounds stacking aswell as full glass cannon willpower spec. They all fall short when the Shaman is under preasoure for a couple of reasons. EVERYTHING sets you back wich means you're forceed to spam hots when under preasure and that means you group dies to burst dmg coz you simply don't have the heals to keep em up without direct casting heals. The HoT's drain you out of AP in no time if you spam em. Then there's all the counters to Shamans from order side that you simply can't controll with snares. All melee dps can ignore your snares with a abillty. All tanks can clear it long enought to just ignores the pools. WL, simply ignores snares alltogether, WH's will attack you from the flank can't do anything about em, then there's the Kotbs who can pretty much counter everything you do with double interupts, destroy confidence etz. So what you need to do is vallue if the Morale pump is worth the loss of AP buff from Zealot or the consistant heals from DoK when creating a warband. And in moast situations both those options are better. There are some situation were you rather have a Shaman for the morale pump ofc, But the consistance at being better in moast situations vs being good in just a few just wins here. The AP drain you talk about is simply countered by shugging a AP pot. Shaman and AM's need to have their abilltes ballanced coz the cast times of their heals just arn't up to pair with what the other healers gets for the same cast times.

[Miszczu5647]

I had a shaman with 83rr (when half of the server was +90rr). So I know what are you talking about.

We have long cast time because of mechanic. If it would work our cast times would by shorter. But mechanic doesn't work, so... we have what we have.

Still I like to play this small green git. For those rare occasions when your performance save your group

[Morf]

Yupp also agree with pretty much all points on Morf here, fix the casttime, and you fix the setback problems, and you fix the survibaillity issues. The only thing I dissagree with is that I havn't really noticed much decrease in healing if you run thee Morale boost tactics. You loose a bit of cleansing and burst healing if target is on low hp, but thats it in my experience.

Yea im not saying you lose all healing capabilities but u lose some, myself when im in a full group i will run with, restoration burst, ere we go again, get movin and run away so i lose green cleanin, extra special mushrooms and aint done yet (2 of 3)for the healing output meaning every now and then i will not have a restoration burst proc, not have 3 or 4 hots ticking over on a target being pressured aswell as cleansing alot less, aint done yet speaks for itself and combined with shrug it off can save someone from death.

I strongly disagree.

The class is a lot more flexible then players are giving it credit.

We, Black Toof Clan, run soley greenskin premade groups. We fight against some really tough meta premade groups and we win. We also fight against some really tough meta groups and we lose. The point is we are able to compete.

I really don't want to give our tricks away. Take 5 steps back and objectively look at all the tricks the shaman class can perform especially if your stacking them in a 12 man setting. What do they due really well and what do they have access too. I'll give you a hint. Drop the restorative burst tactic from your must have tactic slot line up. Here's another hint. We soley run greenskin groups and are doing so in a competitive environment. Try to gain my perspective.

You will have to prove it in terms of recording some footage because not once have i ever seen your guild field a competitive group, you talk alot about race synergy and i can appreciate the amount of effort that you put in to coming up with stuff but unless you actually prove it ingame (which u havent yet) its just bs that may sound good on paper.

Your telling experience players some of which have been playing shaman class since like 2009 that what the majority say are issues with the class are infact non issues at all and all we need to do is look harder at the class, this is rubbish, when u say drop restoration tactic for group play i tend to think you are just trolling us all.

The height of shamans in t4 were end times with rr100 gear because the higher the damage mitigation and wounds the longer you have to heal thru burst damage and combining the ap proc on high end rr gear sets and restoration burst ap issues were not a thing.

[TenTonHammer]

Shammys work relatively alright in large scale if nothing else but instant Rez


But in small scale until something is done about kotbs shitting on Shammy healing it won't be viable

[roadkillrobin]

It's much worse in large scale coz you get hit by AoE from all over the place that set you back aswell....

[StormX2]

Not sure what exactly is different from Live, my old 6man sc group used to do great pre Sov era (before EA cap increases etc) We had pretty much the stacked rr80 group, this was the day of the bomb sorc group though, but we either had OldGregg on SHammy or CHobbie on Shammy, but we did our best when it was a dok or a zealot in there.

We used to compete pretty well vs other 6 mans, we weren't top or anything but we won mroe than we lost at least.

Also, TedJohnson was a badass Shammy in 6 man groups (when lvl cap was 32 at least) but we also had a great Zealot with us usually.

But, that was almost a different game compared to today lol especially comparing Live to RoR

[roadkillrobin]

@StormX2 did you play on a EU or NA server coz the game was very different depending on wich continent you played on, on EU bomb groups were the meta, and on NA i saw alot more mixed groups once i rerolled there. So less AoE flying around on NA server in general.

[StormX2]

@StormX2 did you play on a EU or NA server coz the game was very different depending on wich continent you played on, on EU bomb groups were the meta, and on NA i saw alot more mixed groups once i rerolled there. So less AoE flying around on NA server in general.

NA servers, I cant remember when the first server merge happened, but I am pretty sure we were running the Sorc bomb group on Iron Rock. Trying to think of the time frame, I believe they had not changed the City King Instance yet, it was still the old one where you walked through the Castle and had to fight his various guards and such. Close Quarters was still the old OP version.

[footpatrol2]

Ya we are working on getting some video. Even then I don't think it will be enough to change perspective.

@morf
Ya our group comps will probably not make a lot of sense to you because we don't use traditional comps. We also are constantly still experimenting. Partly because experimenting is fun. We do have a serious group we run and at the moment it is only half the group. We don't stop at 6 man we build to 12 man. Even with half the group we are able to compete with premade meta groups. Competing to me means sometimes we win sometimes we lose. That is my definition of competing.

So it doesn't really matter if you had 80+ RR character. All I'm hearing from that is players specialized in one viewpoint of the game for a LONG time. You are probably an AMAZING solo player at that class. You probably have a intense list of why shaman's are considered underpowered to the other healing classes. Which I'm not trying to tear that down. The arguments on why the class is terrible is in the context of mixed groups. Your comparing zealots, Dok's to the shaman. Shaman's have a completely different design intent then zealots and Dok's. Momentarily drop that perspective. Try to gain my perspective.

I'm talking about group mechanic's and how a group of 4 healing shaman's can work with each other in a 12 man setting. What could 4 healing shaman's due extremely well that the other healing classes can't due as well? Hint: LOOK at the tactic's and abilities.

Take out a piece of paper and write down all the general strengths of the class. Write down all the weaknesses. Now exaggerate those strengths by taking multiple shaman's. I've done this so I'm not asking players to due something I haven't done. Think on how you would want them to interact with each other if you had 4 healing shaman's in a 12 man setting. Think on how you would want them to gear. Hint: Its different then what meta says.

Here's another hint: The class is part of the roaming race: greenskinz. You don't want long protracted fights. Its not designed to handle that. You CAN make them ok'ish at protracted fights but it is not what they excel at. Its not a strength of the class. Exaggerate your strengths.

People are still countering me from a mixed group perspective. My perspective is that zealots, Dok's and shaman's are not competing with each other for slots. Try to drop your mixed group perspective and see things from my perspective. I understand your perspective and reasoning. Do you understand mine?

[Penril]

@foot stop talking about a 12-man group. If Shaman doesn't work in a 6-man group, the class needs to be looked at. Simple as that, and applies to all the other 23 classes as well.