WL or SW ?

[TenTonHammer]

Lol This thread is funny about SW. with their range knockdown in their Self punt me as a MDPS. I might as well sit on the ground and wait to die.

Selfpunt will have no effect if you activate your rootbreak right before they use it, run in melee range > rootbreak. save charge for after the rKD or invest 10 points into RD > win game

Pretty much

10 pts puts rd on a 5min cooldown last I checked kd cc has a lower cd than than that and so you migh not always have it up espically if say you used it in a fight earlier when you got jumped by a wh I mean their no not even a garruntee that rd will be allowed to stay in game

My root breaks were spent dealing with the other 50 billion snares on order

[simtex]

10 pts puts rd on a 5min cooldown last I checked kd cc has a lower cd than than that and so you migh not always have it up espically if say you used it in a fight earlier when you got jumped by a wh I mean their no not even a garruntee that rd will be allowed to stay in game

My root breaks were spent dealing with the other 50 billion snares on order

and maybe the SW used rKD and self KB just before you engaged him fighting a melee DOK, what's your point?

slice through is op yes and needs a nerf.

[Stortz]

from 2009 to 2010, SW was considered to be the worst DPS in the game by a large margin
I don't know how it is now, I suppose Mythic did buff him and it's what we see at ROR right now.
The damage from the SW is supposed to pile up and become deadly, the class isn't about crazy brust yolo like BW.

[Luth]

from 2009 to 2010, SW was considered to be the worst DPS in the game by a large margin
I don't know how it is now, I suppose Mythic did buff him and it's what we see at ROR right now.
The damage from the SW is supposed to pile up and become deadly, the class isn't about crazy brust yolo like BW.

I knew at least two exceptional SWs (exceptional before the patch) who complained after the patch that it was no buff, just a simplification of the class.
They said that they were glad that they mastered the SW after a long time and with the patch it was actually nerfed for the sake of an easier accessibility.
I didn't play a SW before the patch though.

Here are the old abilities to compare: https://web.archive.org/web/20090822062 ... aspx?id=18

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

10 pts puts rd on a 5min cooldown last I checked kd cc has a lower cd than than that and so you migh not always have it up espically if say you used it in a fight earlier when you got jumped by a wh I mean their no not even a garruntee that rd will be allowed to stay in game

My root breaks were spent dealing with the other 50 billion snares on order

and maybe the SW used rKD and self KB just before you engaged him fighting a melee DOK, what's your point?

slice through is op yes and needs a nerf.

A damage decrease on a class that in general doesn't give a **** about damage(outside of obvious DPS specs), correct. My knight has a KD, a Super punt(5s cd), an AoE snare(thank you squiqy for helping me snare your master), an AoE root, an AoE stagger and 2 interrupts(one of which at 65ft range), before the standard tank stuff. Slice Through is nasty. KoTBS has a bunch of nasty however. Both Chosen and KoTBS need some substantial debuffs to make up for lack of Twister imo.

On Kiting: There needs to be a counter once the Kiting starts. Otherwise it's GG. Maybe I'm a scrub, but I don't use RD on any of my toons. And I only have a healer on destro, so I can't comment on chasing order toons, but for Destro it's really only SHs that are ridiculous to catch sometimes. And that's just cause of their racial tactic and Self Punt.... I wish my WH could self punt back where I started after a chosen/BG super punts me...

But that doesn't mean that every single class should be able to catch a Kiter. As long as there are viable counters that don't require some obscure build, what's the issue? Less than 6v6 is irrelevant to balance.

On Topic, SW is really easy to lvl. It will teach you good positioning skills in the game, and has a whole bunch of different builds/strategies you can use. You just need to switch stances during Combat. Do that and they become a whole different animal.

I haven't played a WL on RoR so I wont comment on the AI of their pet. But, every WL I know has a blast playing that toon... And that's what really counts I guess...

[facundo7777]

so thanks for Your answers. So iam in t2 atm. And when i play as sw i feel like (when kiting someone) i must use thousands of spiral fletched arrows to kill (dots on ofc) but faster i lose my energy when wl is killing rly fast but pet bugs are terrible. Maybe iam noob but thats what i feel

[Stortz]

from 2009 to 2010, SW was considered to be the worst DPS in the game by a large margin
I don't know how it is now, I suppose Mythic did buff him and it's what we see at ROR right now.
The damage from the SW is supposed to pile up and become deadly, the class isn't about crazy brust yolo like BW.

I knew at least two exceptional SWs (exceptional before the patch) who complained after the patch that it was no buff, just a simplification of the class.
They said that they were glad that they mastered the SW after a long time and with the patch it was actually nerfed for the sake of an easier accessibility.
I didn't play a SW before the patch though.

Here are the old abilities to compare: https://web.archive.org/web/20090822062 ... aspx?id=18

I don't know how would it play out now, but mid-rr SW used to be unable to kite most mdps and dps-spec tanks. they would eventually run out of cc and get the big brust
oh god the threads on the official forums were endless.

[brandonheat]

WL is a beast in terms of "Commando tactics" if you solo/smallman and a very good DPS asset in structured GvG fights.
In order for pet to be effective IMHO you need LoyalPet addon and pet to be on passive.
Until now I don't have any particular issues with it (pet), apart from that strange disappear of pet when you change area or something.

Overall I wouldn't change to SW (but that's just me) since WL can literally stand against all odds (I see you Pounce) and can kill Unguarded/Unhealed casters in 3 GCDs

[StormX2]

i love SW, at least in T1 lol - i might finally bring one into T4 soon though. Fits my play style well.

[Gobtar]

The Shadow warriors were a very different beast before the buff, very rewarding, and you could kite and solo very well even in tier 3. The Self-punt aoe Snare was 'hilarious' for veteran shadow warriors, VoN got buffed, and many abilities lost the qualifiers for VoN, except Brutal assault for some reason. These were also the days before RD and CW, while the SW had his own via Lileath's Forgiveness. SWs overnight went from a few special few to flavour of the month, but those that were good were still good.

SWs before couldn't idly waste their RKD on anyone, you could only use it once every 3 minutes, and often if you were going to use your VoN for something else you would actually grab the melee KD. So the idea of Order having two consistent rKDs was a little funny. The sheer amount of kiting tools available now is somehow less rewarding, but the SW is hella fun.