Racial group fixing.

[Penril]

Any aura in particular? Or they are all equally good in your opinion? Which Aura is the one that makes you say "ahh... we should get a Chosen/KotBS for this group"?

[Gobtar]

Any aura in particular? Or they are all equally good in your opinion? Which Aura is the one that makes you say "ahh... we should get a Chosen/KotBS for this group"?

You are right of course #NotALLAuras
Resist...Resist aura. Strength and Toughness are really good, but resist is devastating.

[peterthepan3]

footpatrol92 is the coolest dude, had the pleasure of playing with him a few times and speak to him regularly on voice comms concerning all the theorycrafting.

i personally think that regardless of the direction Mythic intended, on RoR at least most people are just gonna be against racial groups anyway because we are stubborn like that. however, it is nice to see footpatrol regularly organising greenskin groups: last night we were doing a scen with him and his group and won it against very good opposition, so it can work if everyone has their shizzle together. similarly we ran a dark elf group a week or so ago (2 bg 2 dok 2 sorc) and it was very fun. nice when people think outside the box and try some crazy stuff out. =D

[Jaycub]

Like gobtar said resists, most important destro side because of double dok meta meaning it's your only real source of resist buff... BO bellow really unreliable.

Toughness is all around good and the value is the same as single target buffs/debuffs, strength will be very good once liniments are out.


A lot of the specable auras are kinda trash or really niche, or only really work in a twisting environment.

[Roodabega]

but mythic took out the self punt for shamans possibly because with x2 run speed procs the kiting was insane just like WLs dmg

[Penril]

Like gobtar said resists, most important destro side because of double dok meta meaning it's your only real source of resist buff... BO bellow really unreliable.

The questions are:

Is x2 Dok the current meta because Chosen can easily buff resists (and debuff his enemies) therefore having no need for a Shaman or Zealot (who buff resists for a lower value than the Chosen anyway)?

Or do you run Chosen because x2 Doks is the current meta for other reasons and therefore you need a tank that can buff your resists (Chosen in this case since Da Greenest is unreliable)?

If Chosen didn't have resist aura, would you run Dok/Zeal // Dok/Shaman? Or would you continue with the meta and just have the BO run Da Greenest? Is Chosen responsible in part for the double Dok meta?

[Jaycub]

Like gobtar said resists, most important destro side because of double dok meta meaning it's your only real source of resist buff... BO bellow really unreliable.

The questions are:

Is x2 Dok the current meta because Chosen can easily buff resists (and debuff his enemies) therefore having no need for a Shaman or Zealot (who buff resists for a lower value than the Chosen anyway)?

Or do you run Chosen because x2 Doks is the current meta for other reasons and therefore you need a tank that can buff your resists (Chosen in this case since Da Greenest is unreliable)?

If Chosen didn't have resist aura, would you run Dok/Zeal // Dok/Shaman? Or would you continue with the meta and just have the BO run Da Greenest? Is Chosen responsible in part for the double Dok meta?

DoK is the best healer in the game period.

Running two doks means you have 2 group cleanses that pretty much remove most of the good debuffs order has (all incoming healdebuffs), you have 2 M2 cleanses that should honestly be m4's, and because of the uniqueness of dok buffs (covenants) you don't lose anything like you would running say 2 shamans. DoK's are also extremely tanky (as are WP's) so running 2 means your healers are much harder to pressure.

Between 2 doks and BO/Chosen you have so many OH **** buttons it's not even funny (Order tanks lacking morale pump to even see m3/4 and morale gain busted on this server)

Double WP isn't meta because their m2 is trash in comparison, their group cleanse is way worse because it doesn't remove ailments, it's just better to run RP as an off healer and take advantage of the powerful tactics it has to increase healing or create absorbs for that extra bit of ehp that ignores healdebuffs. RP also has access to very powerful armor tactic making it a bit more tanky compared to other cloth healers.

[peterthepan3]

pretty much what mr J said ^

[Jaycub]

idk if i came off as "destro OP order sucks", it's really just a morale and cleanse thing. Zealot/RP very good healers thanks to buffs and their good tactic options. If anything order is easymode right now, not from a balance perspective... just que up solo on destro in t4 and you'll see what I mean :^)

[Penril]

I solo Q on both sides all the time.

I disagree on the power of Covenants except for Celerity, and you only need one Dok for it; also imho a good Shaman/Zealot is pretty difficult to catch and therefore hard to pressure.

So, to recap:

- Double Dok is mandatory, mostly because cleanses.
- This leaves your group without resists, therefore you need a Chosen.
- Chosen resist aura happens to be stronger than Shaman/Zealot resist buffs (if the Chosen has points on the right tree up to at least Stagger, which several get).

Apparently group cleanse (and Khaine's Withdrawal) is directly responsible for 3 classes being the meta on destro. Maybe adjusting its power might lead to more Dok/Zeal or Dok/Shaman setups, specially if the Zeal/Shaman resist buffs are buffed (or resist aura is nerfed). Thoughts?




(no one has answered my question: If Chosen didn't have resist aura, would you consider running a Dok/Zeal or Dok/Shaman setup?)


@OP: You might think your thread is being hijacked. But you need to discuss synergy between all classes if you want to make racial groups work. For example, a full Greenskin group would be lacking reliable resists (maybe Da Greenest! procs, but the Shaman resist buff is not as good as a Chosen's). Also, you would lack group cleanse, and being unable to cleanse Engies means your whole group would have a bazillion DoTs on them in no time. You would be forced to spam group heal, which has a longer cast time than Dok's. And you can't risk that, since you aren't as tanky; you rely on kiting to stay alive. To add insult to injury, you can't cleanse BWs as well.