Battle Fatigue

[saupreusse]

Ppl always ask us why we change so many things in the game. We actually wanted to do you a favor and give you something back from the live Servers, and now we receive hate again...
Rvr numbers don't Drop because of battle fatigue. The only thing what keeps players away is a flawed rvr and reward System.
Your Argument about punishing low level players is invalid because under lvl 7 it doesn't even affect you. (Comes soon). Also in lower lvls the cost is much lower.

[Yaliskah]

Ok.

Made a test in IC killing 10 lvl 10 mob (less than 3 minutes), selling all stuff ( white gear + trash item + no craft items) + money drop : 61 Silver.

How many Healstop paid when lvl 10 with 61 Silver?

Now, we could discuss all day long about this, arguing you don't do PvE, i should answer Killing Quest give lot of money.
That Fly Masters are very expensive, and i should answer thats wrong (scrolls + book of binding are your friend), that you die very often, and i would answer that the problem is probably you missed something important . Etcetc...

My last point. All staff members are playing on this server with the same rules than you all. As far i know, they don't spawn gold in their bag. So...

[Tesq]

Battle fatigue had some flaw from live, thus being implemented today mayb it's a good day to point some out instead rage at who implemented it.

-The base cost for 1 stack it's a bit high--> consider do a rvr night you will die a lot and so this would make the price in game raise even higer due the need of more gold (can see it mitigated by blue/purple dropable again in pve so let's wait before touch the cost)
-the stack work horribly, when you get a second stack the timer for the first one reset, that is absurd, if it could be changed to have for every stack it's own slot in the buff windows and make em stack in the value only with out refresh itself or being 1 buff or anyway don't let the timer reset.

[Yaliskah]

You absolutely right Tesq : Let test it deeply and see.

[Svengal]

This post will be in English but also in French, for more people (FR dev, players,...) and because errors will be corrected in French

EN : Dear staff of RoR,

I'm a discreet player but I'll not be silent with this subject and I hope this message will resonate with many people. So... this system can't work by this way, let me explain :

First, I've many characters in the both realms, when a realm has AAO, i go help it for balancing. But with this system, there is my question : "Why would I do this if it is to lose money to die ? Where's the fun ? It's a game, it isn't ?". I don't really know what the xrealmers are, but if I have in mind the right definition, you encourage them.
Secondly, remove your malus costs a bit of money, but it's too expensive during a long time. Besides, we speak of 10% of wounds by death, it makes the system obligatory if you do not want to lose face in RvR. It's a shame.
Third, everyone isn't as rich as Croesus. At low levels, we have only a bit of money, so if you have to pay to retrieve your health we still always poor. Similarly, at highest level, if you want to buy something at the AH, where everything costs a fortune, we can't buy anything there due at your system and it's only one exemple.
At last, The game is especially PVP oriented, where we often die. Do the math.

Here's what I think, a thing like that can make an effect "house of cards".

FR : Cher personnel de RoR,

Je suis un joueur discret, mais je ne garderai pas le silence avec ce sujet et j'espère que ce message trouvera écho avec de nombreuses personnes. Donc... ce système ne peut pas marcher, laissez-moi m'expliquer :

Premièrement, j'ai de nombreux personnages dans les deux camps, quand un royaume a AAO, je vais l'aider pour équilibrer. Mais avec ce système, voici ma question : "Pourquoi ferai-je ça si c'est pour perdre mon argent à force de mourir ? Où est l'amusement ? C'est un jeu, n'est-ce pas ?". Je ne sais pas vraiment ce que sont les xrealmers, mais si j'ai en tête la bonne définition, vous les encouragez.
Deuxièmement, supprimez votre malus coûte un peu d'argent, mais c'est beaucoup trop cher dans une longue période. D'ailleurs, nous parlons de 10% de vie par mort, cela rend le système obligatoire si vous ne voulez pas perdre la face en RvR. C'est honteux.
Troisièmement, tout le monde n'est pas riche comme Crésus, A bas niveau, nous n'avons seulement qu'un peu d'argent, alors si vous avez à payer pour retrouver la forme, nous restons pauvres éternellement. De même, à haut niveau, si vous voulez acheter quelque chose à l'HV, là où tout coûte une fortune, nous ne pouvons rien y prendre à cause de votre système, et ce n'est qu'un exemple.
Enfin, le jeu est particulièrement orienté PvP, là où nous mourrons souvent. Faites le calcul.

Voici ce que je pense, une chose comme ça peut faire un effet "château de cartes".

[psylock81]

My intention was/is not to be hatefull so please don't feel that way.
Additionaly, i did not and am not trying to undermine anyones effort or ideas.
Furthermore, I just setup a series of arguments/thoughts that might not have been to open view or thought about yet. Under closer examination one cans see that they are connected.

To make my opinion clear i would say that if Battle fatigue is to be implemented then please make sure to balance the Time/Cost in a way that players dont have to grind 1 hour in order to oRVR for 1 hour. In order to achieve that i believe you will need the community's opinion (something like a poll) cause not everybody is playing 24/7 and there is still inavailable game content that is required in order to support smoother farming (e.g. Dungeons, PQs).

Regaridng my 'low level player' argument please excuse me for not being clear enough. I was talking about the low T3/4 players both in level/gear. Cause, we all know that everybody just rushes to T4 ... right?!

Please, keep in mind that this is just my opinion, i am trying to state things the way i see them and I am not trying to flame or anything. If your effort was in vain or your choises bad then people would just leave without saying a word.

[FeistyDeity]

There is a problem with Battle Fatigue though that this server has which didn't exist on live. Svengal already lampshaded it.

We can swap sides on the fly. Right now, this serves as an incentive to some players to play on the underdog's side whenever there's aao. Whether it's for thrills, for solo roaming farming etc. Point is, there are a good deal of reasons why people didn't flock collectively to the side with the biggest numbers during RvR.

This may well change when you start to put a monetary penalty on player deaths. Since it affects the "risk-takers" the most, you will see more people preferring to take the easy route. Result: completely one-sided PvP.

It may not all be as drastic as I make it out to be here, but as you all know even a small shift in numbers has a huge effect on RvR. The most fun sieges are those where the defending side is only slightly outnumbered.

EDIT: Just to make it clear - I'm not bitter about this nor was it my intention to come across as this. I can understand perfectly why one would reintroduce mechanics from Live, especially after community outrage about not being "faithful" enough. However, I just felt the need to make the point why the negative sides of BF affect RoR MORE than they did the Live version.

[Svengal]

I didn't want to be hatefull, I just gave the negative points on it. For me, the battle fatigue must be reworked or deleted again. The idea of a poll is good, but it should be set up.

[Tesq]

That was another good point the system as it was implemented in live hit almost only lowbe, ppl griding in pve at high level will never die like that marauder, chosen , BG spam aoe all day long etc

The stack cost should increase in pve a lot at rank 40, but being very very low while the char is pre t4 at least.
For exemple a 20 silver each time my low lv choppa die it's a too much (maybe it could be progressive with renown too).

The system definetly needed to be implemented as die , resp and return to hit the nearest thing near the WC/chapter was dumb, just like it's keep morales after you resp.

The rvr cost it's another matter.

[georgehabadasher]

20 silver isn't much, and doesn't really impact me personally; but I don't see a compelling reason to add this 'feature' unless there's a problem with gold inflation on the server. It disproportionally punishes the losing/underdog side and weaker players, while being insignificant to established players and premades. Of course it's not a big deal, but "it's not a big deal" isn't a justification for adding a feature.

To quote Azarael:

Nothing that existed on live matters unless you can justify it.

In other words: we consider mechanics that existed in 1.4.8 Age of Reckoning based upon their own merits. They do not have any inherent superiority over any other idea simply because they existed in the live game. This means that statements like "It wasn't like that on live" or "It wasn't broken, don't fix it" without qualification, when made about a particular mechanic or concept that you know we altered from live, are not welcome and will be disregarded. Elements of Age of Reckoning which were strong and worked well can easily be defended and would not come up for change in any case.