Wanting to play BG

[Jaycub]

The problem I have with that build peter is you might as well just slap on a shield, you wont lose much damage and you gain a 5 sec KD. You already don't have CD so you can't lose it.

No points in left tree means you lose all the flat scaling on your main dps abilities as well, but it would certainly be tanky enough to run as a 2h spec.

[Jaycub]

Only Chosen and SM have core defensive abilities for 2H spec (+parry). KotBS can't buff his parry, and IB/BO have to spec for parry tactics (and Oathbound for IB).

I meant more along the lines of things that would help a 2h tank survive, not just parry.

Knight has:
M2 emporers champ (still allows them to run utility m1's unlike BG whos defensive morale is m1)
vigilance
240 ini+WS from runefang procs

IB also has a 25% self parry buff with no CD, armor tactic GWM for even more parry

Not so sure about BO

[Penril]

Again, don't use KotBS as an example.

As for the IB, I mentioned Oathbound but you have to spec for it and that means you lose your AoE snare or GAM (5% parry, 10% damage). Still, the IB needs to spec for TWO things (in different trees) to gain 30% parry buff, while BG only needs to spec for 1 tactic to gain the same 30% (granted, at 100 hatred).

BO can get 15% at most, by using 2 tactics (one kinda sucks, and honestly BO have much better tactics to choose from, like Stab Ye Gooder, Gork Smash, Big Brawlin, AAO, LM, YSMBD, LFO, even GWS and Rugged are better than LSM).

Why don't you try what I suggested and then make your own conclusions? Give it a try for a week.

[Jaycub]

Again, don't use KotBS as an example.

As for the IB, I mentioned Oathbound but you have to spec for it and that means you lose your AoE snare or GAM (5% parry, 10% damage). Still, the IB needs to spec for TWO things (in different trees) to gain 30% parry buff, while BG only needs to spec for 1 tactic to gain the same 30% (granted, at 100 hatred).

BO can get 15% at most, by using 2 tactics (one kinda sucks, and honestly BO have much better tactics to choose from, like Stab Ye Gooder, Gork Smash, Big Brawlin, AAO, LM, YSMBD, LFO, even GWS and Rugged are better than LSM).

Why don't you try what I suggested and then make your own conclusions? Give it a try for a week.

IB doesnt need AoE snare, knight covers it with slice through. Although having more aoe snares surely doesn't hurt and dok can't cleanse IB.

Also oathbound is like the greatest thing IB has can't imagine a build not running it, not only is it huge for the IB but say if they are gaurding a slayer that 25% parry is massive for the slayer.

[Penril]

That has nothing to do with the fact that BG does indeed possess certain skills that help his survivability in 2H spec.

You can also go for something like this if you have trouble with BWs or DPS AMs:

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... 3:;0:0:0:0:

I don't think any other tank can buff his disrupt by 30% in 2H (SM but, again, WoDS is a channeled skill). You can also replace a tactic (possibly Unstoppable Fury) with Endless Pursuit to catch those pesky casters. But, honestly: go with the cookie cutter DPS spec, and just swap gear/tactics depending on how squishy you feel.

[Jaycub]

I'm not saying BG doesn't have tools to survive while 2h, just that those tools are unreachable while maintaining some form of viability compared to other tanks. 2H BG is already considered awful with CD by many taking it away to add survive makes no sense as you might as well just put on a shield and gain 5 sec kd in exchange for what? 100 str equiv in damage increase and higher auto attack damage?

And then thats the thing, shield BG lacks things like morale pump or good group utility or good damage output that CH/BO have.

[Penril]

Depends what is your definition of viability when applied to BG. The spec we are discussing is basically a DPS spec, increasing your AA speed, crit, undetauntable, and CD hitting like a truck, making the BG viable mostly due to its damage. If you want to be viable based on utility and not just on damage, then maybe you could run this:

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=bg; ... 5:;0:0:0:0:

You can then slot armor talismans on everything, use Banish Weakness M1, use defensive renown abilities and run defensive tactics + SK. You will be pretty tanky, have a superpunt, spammable heal debuff, Choking Fury and CD (so your DPS can crit more often). Sure, you won't do as much damage as the other spec but... so do most tanks that spec only for utility.

I think the issue here is that you want to play BG with a DPS spec and then complain that you dont have as much survivability or utility as a tank that specs for survivability and utility.

Yeah, that spec requires rr70. But there are other specs/classes out there that don't really shine until rr60-70.

[Jaycub]

Chosen/BO don't give up much their great utility their specs and tactics are pretty much no brainers like knight. Giving up M1 for defense is also insane, CC/DS are extremely important.

The only tank that could have to make hard choices in spec is knight because they have so many T1 tactics, but most are im sure running 20% crit, aoe snare and super punt.

[Penril]

Chosen/BO don't give up much their great utility their specs and tactics are pretty much no brainers like knight. Giving up M1 for defense is also insane, CC/DS are extremely important.

The only tank that could have to make hard choices in spec is knight because they have so many T1 tactics, but most are im sure running 20% crit, aoe snare and super punt.

Can you link me the 2H DPS spec for BO and Chosen please?

[Jaycub]

Chosen/BO don't give up much their great utility their specs and tactics are pretty much no brainers like knight. Giving up M1 for defense is also insane, CC/DS are extremely important.

The only tank that could have to make hard choices in spec is knight because they have so many T1 tactics, but most are im sure running 20% crit, aoe snare and super punt.

Can you link me the 2H DPS spec for BO and Chosen please?

You dont go 2h DPS on BO/CH. And SnB BO can outdps 2h BG ST dps wise becuase skullthumper is cool.

And it's not even just about 2h BG, the shield spec just as bad in comparison to CH/BO