Vigfuss wrote:We've seen quite a few teams over the past months start up and give up after a week or two. I think too many groups give up after losing to other groups. The only way you can really learn this game is to keep doing it win or lose, and it takes time and effort. People are too afraid to lose as a group, so they stick to solo Q, that way they always have that excuse.
What this game needs is more players with the balls to actually try to play. No more excuses about pug vs PM, play the game.
Im going to comment on this one since I have been in this position having just recently played. Note though, this is going severely off topic, but yet somehow it feels the topic of 6v6 just cannot be avoided.
I started this game around 2 months ago and we wanted to play some rvr (really couldnt care about scenarios), we rolled a comp that involved a bright wizard (but we also had 2 tanks). Some time later we learn that rvr is kinda not super active due to incoming changes np, so we decide we are going to dabble into scenarios, and inc massive melee train spam. So we go okay okay, we are going to reroll the BW into a WL because the other player was a WH. There is some intermediate pause while we wait for the reroll and the gearing etc. After about 1.5 weeks a WL is now ready to go. We also learn that IB just isnt so great for 6v6 because you really need that 2nd tank damage, so the IB has to turn into SM, bit more of a pause while all this is happening. Okay, all is ready to go.
Now just getting a 6v6 is in itself a hastle, people dont have similar play times, or people have to reschedule on a set time due to unforseen circumstances etc. We put in a lot of effort into contacting various guilds and trying to sort out a 6v6, but ultimately over the span of 2.5 weeks we managed to get a total of 4h of 6v6? So to put things into context, more or less a month of total time was spent between rerolling comp and trying to organize a 6v6, and our total playtime in a month was literally 4h. Now 4 of our players of the 6 have never played warhammer before (not even live), so to realistically compete to the maximum of our ability, we need way more playtime than that, think hours of daily games.
We also realized another problem, our WH/WL setup was nice, but still not optimal. Why go through such effort of spiking when other groups running either double slayer or double marauder can literally just spam damage through guard and force the kill (as you yourself have said is possible). Reality was to real edge yourself into the top 5 premades, just being good wasnt enough, you also needed the exact fotm comp. Sure you can be competitive without it, but the difference between having just 1 heal debuff which can be parried vs 2 heal debuffs which cannot be parried (slayer has much anti parry) is enormous, after a lot of video analysis reality was our WH couldnt maintain the heal debuff while being himself perma trained, resulting in weak overall pressure outside of our spiking.
So now we look at the situation and its like, okay, if we really want to be the best premade, we have to reroll again, but realistically were looking at playing a couple of hours of this content per month which investing disproportionate effort. And then you realize, its just not worth it. I understand for those of you who had characters already capped at 32/35/rr40 its easy to finish a reroll, especially for those of you who love warhammer for warhammer or are kept in by nostalgia. But for new people looking to get into it, nothing binds me to warhammer, I came to find some good pvp and I realized the barrier for entry required too much mundane tasks to involve myself for what is more or less a dead scene, where people trying to bridge a 1-5 year experience gap dont even have the platform to practice in.
So tl;dr, its not that people give up too fast, its that there is no space to practice in, playing 1h a week just doesnt cut it. And then the fact that the game balance is just not where it needs to be for 6v6 means you need to play what works instead of what you want to play, and that sometimes means starting again, and since this game is not designed for accessible pvp, there is some grind involved in that setup. If it were like MOBAS/FPS/GW2, where you simply swapped to what works without doing things you dont want to, then sure the concept of a thriving 6v6 scene might work, but ultimately this game just isnt made that way.
