Which class would you like to see in the Balance Forum?

[kweedko]

The poll doesn't relate to just underpowered classes, maybe people voted WP/DOK because they need to be toned down a bit?

In reality the games current abilities system in based around 80+ gear where classes have a bit more parity than people wearing non Set Bonus gear with very low stats

yeah and ATM we all wearing T3 sets in T4 so even more messed up ballance.

[zazie]

The poll doesn't relate to just underpowered classes, maybe people voted WP/DOK because they need to be toned down a bit?

In reality the games current abilities system in based around 80+ gear where classes have a bit more parity than people wearing non Set Bonus gear with very low stats

yeah and ATM we all wearing T3 sets in T4 so even more messed up ballance.

I completely agree. A lot of the classes don't shine in particular until higher gear sets (Conq/invader/Sov) or even have rr60-70 so they have those extra skill points to spend for defensive/supportive abilities, whereas theres many DPS/Heal/Tank classes that thrive regardless of gear because of particular abilties/growth rates of abilities.

[Landaren]

some people are wearing t3 sets

most of the DPS that ive seen have BiS gear atm, save the ring sets from keep bags

[kweedko]

some people are wearing t3 sets

most of the DPS that ive seen have BiS gear atm, save the ring sets from keep bags

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Annihilator_Armor

Annihilator Boots (RR25): Rare drop from enemy players/Bought from Renown vendor/other players.
Annihilator Gloves (RR26): Rare drop from enemy players/Bought from Renown vendor/other players.
Annihilator Shoulders (RR27): T3 Keep capture Massive Loot Bag/Bought from Renown vendor.
Annihilator Helmet (RR28): T3 Keep capture Massive Loot Bag/Bought from Renown vendor.
Annihilator Chest (RR29): T3 Keep capture Massive Loot Bag/Bought from Renown vendor.

[stillwaterww]

Yeah but thats info from after the rr100 update when they made all sub rr80 sets easier earlier to get.

[Shadowgurke]

Imho, 2H BG needs some real buffs. But not SnB. Spammable outgoing HD makes it a nightmare for RP (he cant cleanse BGs). If a Order tank swaps guard to the healer, you can punt him away (in several situations, you can completely remove him from the fight). Add a 5sec KD on the healer and it is gg.

The usual argument i read on the forum for BO>>>> BG is that 1) BO does insane damage, and 2) BG needs to catch the RP and any decent RP will always be able to easily kite the BG. Well then, the BO will do ZERO damage to the RP since he won't be able to catch him as well, right?

That is a very weird argument. You don't go for the healers, hence BOs damage works and BGs healdebuff doesn't. There is no way to catch a RP with 150 range on most of his skills, unless he **** up. Even if you catch him, 1) the WP can cleanse him, 2) CW is mandatory on healers for that exact reason, 3) the RP does not do the bulk of the healing, even debuffed it's not too much trouble when you couple it with disengaging, defensive morales or other stuff. 5s KD is still not the end of the world, certainly not when the KD is not up because you are charging the RP hence you don't block. I am not saying that the BG does not have it's uses, but you don't want to play with a tank that can sometimes put a HD on an enemy.

Add to this the fact that there are very, very few good BGs in the server and... yeah.

Most good players don't run suboptimal setups, that is why you don't see them a lot

The BO true strengths come from an uncleansable, spammable AoE snare (awesome for leveling the field against KotBS/IB AoE curse snares) and having all of their debuffs being uncleansable by the WP. Which begs the question: Is BO really the best Destro tank as so many people claim, or is it a matter of WP/Dok making some classes look UP? There is a similar situation with healers and rDPS, where AM/Shaman are unable to cleanse BW/Sorc, and Magus/Eng constantly get all their dots AoE cleansed.

Okay. Here it is. Why SM & BO are strong atm: It's their damage. This is more aimed at IB vs SM than it is for BG vs BO, because I feel like IB is totally viable . With a SM or a BO you have 3 dps. Hence you can kill targets through guard and decent healers. If you don't have the SM or the BO, you have to get tricky with punts. That is really the biggest factor. 3 DPS can consistently kill a guarded target- 2 DPS have to rely on burst windows, punts, enemy mistakes etc.


On the whole Magus/Engi part: Magus and Engi are viable classes with ridiculously good CC. The issue is that many dislike the Pullbot playstyle and that a pure CC class does not work well in a 6v6 environment. The issue is that in order to make Magus Engi viable for 6v6, you have to buff their damage but you can't let them keep their Pull. Flat out buffing Engi/Magus damage is a mistake and i believe azarael acknowledged that

[Jaycub]

Aren't those RR requirements and aqcuisition post gear set squish thanks to mythic abandoning warlord and introducing worn sov (post RR80+ patch)

which is something the devs stated won't be happening on this server?

Changes to softcaps or the like would also blow further sets effecting balance out of the water.

[peterthepan3]

On the whole Magus/Engi part: Magus and Engi are viable classes with ridiculously good CC. The issue is that many dislike the Pullbot playstyle and that a pure CC class does not work well in a 6v6 environment. The issue is that in order to make Magus Engi viable for 6v6, you have to buff their damage but you can't let them keep their Pull. Flat out buffing Engi/Magus damage is a mistake and i believe azarael acknowledged that

Few things:

* What is this ridiculously good CC?

* If you're referring to large-scale RvR when you say they are 'viable', then yes - they are - but that is only because of rift. Even dps zealots and melee squigs have a spot in rvr. This conversation pertains to non-rift magi/engineers, and they are not viable in a competitive environment (a competitive environment must always be considered when discussing potential changes/imbalances)

* The magus/engineer is not a pure CC class. There is simply not enough potent CC/unique CC that only the magus/engineer provides to justify rendering them as a CC bot. They all have 3 trees dedicated to damage, have a plethora of different damaging skills - but about 2-4 useful CC abilities. Also said CC abilities are very reliant on playing with competent people who won't break them, as once they are broken this 'ridiculously good CC' becomes moot.

* I am a bit lost as to why any buffs to the Magus/engineer Havoc/Rifle and Changing/Grenadier - ST and ST/Long-range aoe tree (aka non-rift trees) would justify removing the only ability that warrants taking a magus at all? Unless that damage were exponential. Also any buffs to the magus/engineer in 6v6 department - as you said - would make it silly to remove rift, as rift is not a 6v6 tool...

[kweedko]

Yeah but thats info from after the rr100 update when they made all sub rr80 sets easier earlier to get.

Yeah but we got class blalance and skills on moment of last patch swapskill for bo and sm armor debuff and so one for wl maras, why not making pre 80 balance let zeas got FROGING RAVEN and such lets get all back to satrt game ballance let's waste all changes implemented to ballance before 90 sets go, why deves don't do that - cause THAT WAS A MESS so my point is - if balance on last patch then anni T3 set as in last patch(and i don't give a frog about 80+ rr sets)

[stillwaterww]

Hmm yeah you have a point, sadly not all needed balance changes were made by mythic and some didnt make sense. I dont think its a good idea to balance careers around anni gear since you'll run into problems in the long run when more gear becomes available, but its a good as any starting point. Balance will I think always be in flux and requires constant attention once you dedicate yourself to making balancing acts, good thing we are on an alpha state server where that is the perfect sandbox to do so.