Annaise16 wrote:I played a Chosen up until a few months before the live game closed and I don't remember getting the kotbs superpunt.
you played them all until the game closed, huh?
he is referring to RoR not AoR . chosen and kotbs do have the same kick here.
I played 19 classes to level 40, although the only ones I played past rr80 were WH, SM, WE, WL, and AM. The only classes I didn't level to 40 were SH, magus, Black Orc, shaman, and zealot. The SH was the only one of those that I played past level 10. The only time I have ever played a magus was to test some abilities on the pts.
With regard to the Chosen punt, he mentioned the live game. So I was wondering if I missed something.
Jaycub wrote:Anyone have any thoughts about the state of BG/IB in 6v6?
Thread seems like it's kinda run it's course for destro morale pump (devolved into mostly shitposting).
BG is ****, can't compete with BO at all and has many of it's buffs made redundant by Mara
The class needs some serious looking at
IB.... See it is of my option that IB is still a dang good rock solid tank, it just apperantly can't compete with SMs stat steal and dps output in 6v6? At least that's what I've understood from talking and reading around
Irregardless IB is in a much better place in the order tank higharchy relative to the status of BG on destro
Penril wrote:You are 100% correct that this is pointless in a 1 3 2 though since the KotBS will be using his M3 constantly (i believe you meant No Escape instead of Slice Through). And being the only tank, he will probably go for a tri-spec and use ID anyway.
or is that what you recommend? if so i'd say giving up DT and KD for something useless like SF which you will most likely never use anyway can't be justified by any means. The overall loss of defensive and offensive possibilities by speccing into Vigilance and using other morales are simply outshining SF by a lot.
Oh no. As I said, in a 1 3 2 the KotBS is definitely not speccing SF. And sorry about No Escape/ST. I was confused since ST is pretty much mandatory in any setup (not just 1 3 2) and we were discussing Morales.
If I actually were gonna use SF, i would use 2 KotBS:
Both have Slice Through, so it is easy to keep destro melee train perma-snared (ST being uncleansable by enemy double Doks). You have Encouraged Aim and Dirty Tricks. One of the tanks has a KD, the other one has Stagger. Both have a super punt. Your Auras counter the Chosen and most of the BO stat steals. The RP could buff Initiative on everyone to compensate a little (not enough, but still helps). The BO would have to guess who is the SF KotBS in order to morale drain him (at least for the first fight). Not sure who i would pick as my 2 mDPS though... who would you pick?
You are correct that you will most likely never use SF. However I think this mostly applies to SCs; I can see it being used in a 6v6 and RvR (assuming the 6v6 is between equally skilled players and therefore the fight might last for a while; i have been in some that lasted 10+ minutes, and there are several videos of 6v6 in RoR from different guilds, yours included, that last even longer).
Yes: this is not the Order melee 6-man meta. Yes: you might be better off using a SM or IB instead of 2 KotBS. But i don't think this is a bad setup at all. And in the end, i guess it really depends on who you are fighting. Anyway, you will probably disagree with this but since i think i already explained everything about this setup, i have nothing more to add except: agree to disagree.
TenTonHammer wrote:
BG is ****, can't compete with BO at all and has many of it's buffs made redundant by Mara
The class needs some serious looking at
Mara or BG? I can see the usefulness of BG in a group that doesn't have a Mara. The problem is: Mara is mandatory. So, would you say this is a BG problem (needing buffs/changes so it doesn't compete with Mara) or a Mara one (Mara needing a nerf)?
TenTonHammer wrote:
BG is ****, can't compete with BO at all and has many of it's buffs made redundant by Mara
The class needs some serious looking at
Mara or BG? I can see the usefulness of BG in a group that doesn't have a Mara. The problem is: Mara is mandatory. So, would you say this is a BG problem (needing buffs/changes so it doesn't compete with Mara) or a Mara one (Mara needing a nerf)?
Just curious. I admit i'm not entirely sure.
Personally I see it as a bit of both. BG could use some utility buffs to either make their existing utility stronger so that it's desirable over what the Mara provides, or some additional utility. And the Mara could stand to lose a bit of its utility.
Jaycub wrote:Anyone have any thoughts about the state of BG/IB in 6v6?
Thread seems like it's kinda run it's course for destro morale pump (devolved into mostly shitposting).
BG is ****, can't compete with BO at all and has many of it's buffs made redundant by Mara
The class needs some serious looking at
IB.... See it is of my option that IB is still a dang good rock solid tank, it just apperantly can't compete with SMs stat steal and dps output in 6v6? At least that's what I've understood from talking and reading around
Irregardless IB is in a much better place in the order tank higharchy relative to the status of BG on destro
I agree IB is in a better spot than BG, but ya it seems a good order comp needs SM for the DPS output... and it's not like SM is lacking in great utility. And then you need a knight again pretty self explanatory. So IB is shafted in that regard, as it doesn't bring near as much damage as SM. and doesn't have as strong utility as the knight or SM.
TenTonHammer wrote:
BG is ****, can't compete with BO at all and has many of it's buffs made redundant by Mara
The class needs some serious looking at
Mara or BG? I can see the usefulness of BG in a group that doesn't have a Mara. The problem is: Mara is mandatory. So, would you say this is a BG problem (needing buffs/changes so it doesn't compete with Mara) or a Mara one (Mara needing a nerf)?
Just curious. I admit i'm not entirely sure.
BG needs to looked at that for sure, its kit needs to be addresed for example why ever get Wave of Scorn when you can get big brawlin instead? Why get Crimson Death when BO stat steal initiative for what? 300% inc crit chance? Etc Etc....
Bretin wants to turn maras inc hd into an outgoing HD to break x2 mara but that would just mean that BG's outgoing HD tactic would be kinda useless/outshone then
While mara provides higher armor, and wounds debuffs among other things Its not just that class alone thats the problem, whatever bg can debuff or buff can also be done by auras or stat steal, and Crush the Weak imho isnt as good as try an hurt me
In bomb groups chosen provide resists debuffs with auras and BO and debuff corp with WAAAAGH! making them both more viable tank options for 1-3-2 nor does BG have the morale pump of chosen and BO
I feel that yes down the line we need to look at mara (as much as it pains me to say as im rather fond of my mara), or atleast the wounds debuff, its the highest in the game, low CD and high uptime with big dmg with the no real "requirements", unlike BG that needs to crit, chosen needs discordant auras, slayer and kotbs need to run 2H
At the end of the day though its BG's kit thats the real problem, its a selfish tank that brings little to the table that cannot outshine the benifits of other classes enough to be "viable"
Last edited by TenTonHammer on Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jaycub wrote:Anyone have any thoughts about the state of BG/IB in 6v6?
Thread seems like it's kinda run it's course for destro morale pump (devolved into mostly shitposting).
BG is ****, can't compete with BO at all and has many of it's buffs made redundant by Mara
The class needs some serious looking at
IB.... See it is of my option that IB is still a dang good rock solid tank, it just apperantly can't compete with SMs stat steal and dps output in 6v6? At least that's what I've understood from talking and reading around
Irregardless IB is in a much better place in the order tank higharchy relative to the status of BG on destro
I agree IB is in a better spot than BG, but ya it seems a good order comp needs SM for the DPS output... and it's not like SM is lacking in great utility. And then you need a knight again pretty self explanatory. So IB is shafted in that regard, as it doesn't bring near as much damage as SM. and doesn't have as strong utility as the knight or SM.
It has your only armor and outgoing heal debuffs if you have 2 slayers as your dps.
