Destro morale pump - SM/BO dominance

[Penril]

Leave the BO's morale dump alone. The class is balanced (unlike a certain feathered humie tank). Have your SM go WW and spam the morale drain (I'm not sure how effective it is as I haven't played SM for a few months, but on BO the clobber morale drain is very effective) against the tanks.

But you would need to drain both Chosen and BO. Not to mention that if you are spamming Intimidating Blow, you are not using all your other tools. And if the Chosen/BO block your attack, you just boosted their morale

Lookin' for Opp'tunity is much better than IB since it reduces a percent of your enemies morale. So it is much more effective if used on someone who is close to M3 or 4, while IB always removes 100 points.

[Bretin]

Both tanks and tanks in general have allot more damage at this level than they usually would.

wrong.

These tanks where so scorned on live and yet now they are essential.

i don't want to sound rude but that's bc they have been played by some trashcans. yet there are 2 decent BO's in the game and 1 SM. the others are just as useful as those on live.

it was always us telling everyone how viable SM/BO is. we have been called "pr1cks", "assho1es", "wank3rs" and what not. Now everyone agrees that those tanks are viable and they are called essential. For me that's odd because compared to live nothing has changed besides the slight fact that on live there was no skill required to play quite competitive - thanks to certain RA's, gear and hidden level. if you want a proof, ask yourself why all the selfproclaimed "veterans" who people called good, do struggle here.

[Ktana]

Back in live this morale gain didnt really matter cause everyones morale gained much faster.
Nowadays you get standart 10 morale/sec. And with FULL morale/sec gear you get 10+ 3(from ruin chest) + 4(from bandits cloak) + 3 (from belt) + 8(from 4xjewerly) = 28 morale/sec.
While chosen gets 10+ 200 morale/3sec = 77 morale/sec without any sacrifices which you usually accept slotting crappy gear just to get morale/sec bonus.

Personally I dont mind if this kinda tactics was on WE/mara etc.
But thats on a tank.
Which have all this super group utility morales that can easily save anyone.

This tactic gets M4 in 7200/77= 47sec of the fight. which makes things are too forgiving for destro
With all morale/sec gear any order tank can get M3 in 1800/28= 64sec and M4 in 3600/28 = 2min 8sec. Without morale/sec gear you will get M4 once in 6min(!!)

[Bretin]

Imo this would be a buff to Destro and you probably know it

See, that's why Sigmig called you "not so smart".

Right now the marauder doesn't rely on any mdps and he is able to create more pressure than any other dps bc of his kit. The ic hd is the most important debuff when it comes to pressure. Without an ic hd he would finally rely on a different class e.g. Choppa, WE, mdok. With a choppa the common 2/2/2 destru setup would have more damage and become more vulnerable. The marauder himself is the hardest to kill mdps in the game, there is no doubt. It's ofc not as dramatic as it was live bc of some bugfixes and the lack of TB but still, he is a beast. Hence why i wouldn't want to change anything else on this class. But having 2 such defensive mdps combined with 4 oh **** buttons and the advantage of having the better group cleanse than order is a bit too much of a cheese if you ask me.

In terms of realm balance you just have to compare the healdebuffs. Whether does order have a spammable HD e.g. DoK's CoK nor do they have a 5s IC hd besides a Short Temper specced slayer. The DoK m2 and the morale push could be justified by saying the choppa in general has less group support than a slayer. Also the loss of the incoming heal leech would make the marauder slightly more vulnerable. Another part which justifies the mentioned destru benefits. In a double marauder meta as we have it right now those things can't be justified even though they don't grant you the possibility of an auto-win.

[Tiggo]

what about wl ic hd? to much rng cause of position requirement?

[Bretin]

what about wl ic hd? to much rng cause of position requirement?

sorry but what has the wl ic hd to do with this discussion? to answer your question: it's fine as it is.

[Eathisword]

IB can't be cleansed my DoK except for M2. Must be useless

It doesn't really matter in this discussion, but you misunderstood me. My point was exactly that : IB cant be cleansed by dok, so he cannot help to mask the heal debuff, i.e. dok will cleanse the ailment/hex whether or not the target is cursed.

Of course, if you play vs a retard team that let's IB use punishing knock on their doks... then yeah... I guess its great !

[Jaycub]

Another thing that came up in our discussions is destros ability to bury order deep in debuffs in their meta comp.

BO AoE snare instantly puts 2 ailments on everyone it hits, chosen has crippling strikes, mara is just shitting out ailments like crazy. It just seems kinda pointless to even try cleansing against that if you are wasting a GCD to remove a 25% disorient or a x1 rend etc...

And like it was brought up WP can't cleanse any of those since they are ailments.


I don't play healer so that might sound ignorant, but how exactly should order approach cleansing if it all?

[Vayra]

Changing the Mara heal debuff to outgoing would only give further incentive to use BO/Chosen over BG since Mara already covers almost all of the utility BG can bring.

[Gachimuchi]

Another thing that came up in our discussions is destros ability to bury order deep in debuffs in their meta comp.

BO AoE snare instantly puts 2 ailments on everyone it hits, chosen has crippling strikes, mara is just shitting out ailments like crazy. It just seems kinda pointless to even try cleansing against that if you are wasting a GCD to remove a 25% disorient or a x1 rend etc...

And like it was brought up WP can't cleanse any of those since they are ailments.


I don't play healer so that might sound ignorant, but how exactly should order approach cleansing if it all?

You just have to deal with it. RP cleanses ailment/curse so even if spamcleanse tactic is slotted you won't be able to remove debuffs faster than they can put them on. Every now and again you might nick the wounds/debuff or armor debuff but only near beginning of fights, later in they will be buried too deep since Mara(or another mara)/Blorc ailment, Chosen/Choppa(curse) will be able to put more debuffs on that you will be able to realistically deal with. If one of their tanks realizes you're spamming cleanse they can just start spamming other debuffs.