I personally like this idea. My previous suggestion was rather to have a fixed 3:00 lock upon capture - rather than a 3:00 wait UNTIL capture. This allows you to hit a BO very quickly, cap it, then move on and its locked for a few minutes. After that time, the Hero/NPCs spawn and act as the defense. This makes BOs very contested. A 3:00 lock is not very long TBH... This forces a level of defense that currently you never see. Maybe even add another Hero or two to these BOs. I think it should be something a 6 man team should be able to do, probably not something a duo or trio party should be able to take with ease - forcing some level of teamwork.sanii wrote: My personal suggestion for this is that BOs should not be click/lockable but rather behave like the objectives in scenarios - that is to be in a constant state of contest (Reikland Factory/Nordenwatch). You would need to up the actuall time cap the flag but it will at least force people to stay/defend an objective instead of just cap and forget , a side effect of it is also that you can't just zerg 1 objective and move the the next , but in order to ensure a keep take you will need to at least leave some defense . I am not sure if anyone else has already suggested something like this and there are alot of details associated with such a system that could be fine tuned but i would love to hear some opinions on it.
I feel your stress @Azarael... I am the same way. I hate zerging and hate PvDooring even more. Currently RvR is a necessary evil to get items - which frankly some of the tier 4 influence gear is lack luster IMO and the only thing that is appealing is the new OP Jewelry set from Purple bags. (This is another issue though)Azarael wrote:Perhaps the problem is that the current RvR system just isn't fun in and of itself. That's certainly why you don't find me in RvR - I'm both anti-zerg and anti-PvDoor, and all the rewards you can give will never change that, so there is nothing of interest to me as long as RvR plays the way it does now and did in T2/T3. If that's the case, it would behoove us to make it fun first. This is why I said I'm looking for gameplay elements and mechanics.
I wrote a post previously about this. You have two issues
1) Zerg.
How do you remove zerging while also not force people to sit at empty BOs all day long "defending". It needs to be FUN first and foremost, like you said.
In order to remove the zerg issue, you need to split everyone up.
In order to split everyone up, you have to make BOs more "worth fighting for" than trying to zerg BOs and take keeps.I wonder if a system that more heavily weights BOs would be better. Such as it more drastically lowers/raises the Doors HP - and possibly even like a Wounds buff in that it could 'heal' the door for the amount.
Combined with the above suggestion of making BOs cap near instantly (once defeating the Heros/NPCs) and only lock for 3:00minutes or something. It could make "defense" on a keep MORE about re-capping/fighting BOs, than sitting behind a wall with Oil.
Same with capturing BOs, if BOs were more stagnant. It would make the entire RvR experience MORE fun if you battled over contested BOs the entire time until 1 team owned them all outright. Then the Keep portion of the assault was much shorter. Right now you spend 15-30 minutes capping all the BOs, you see some opposing faction lock a BO and then you all sit around waiting for stuff to unlock... It shouldnt be this way - just like in SCs, why do people fight all over the maps? Because ALL the BOs are open for capture. I have defeated zergs on many multiple BO Sc maps by just doing a solo/duo "backcap" while the zerg is too busy sticking together to be effective. This is how RVR should be too!
Once a side owns all the BOs, the door should fall much quicker than it does now. Making it harder to defend - making it more appealing to re-capture BOs, "wounds buffing" the door back up (HP-wise) as a solid form of defense. Even if recapped and the "max" HP dropped, the Door retains the HP kept making defense less about hiding behind a wall, and more about BOs. Same with Offense. You will NOT be able to take a keep unless you actually defend some BOs because of this qausi-heal function of "wounds buff"
This would cause a more spread out assault where 1 WB attacks the keep while the other WB has a more "roam" party defending BOs against possible 1WB dropping Oil and what not, while another tries to re-capture BOs. It also allows for a quick 6 man strike team to nail a BO (if not defended) and since you could quickly cap it and lock it for 3 minutes, create an absolute NEED to defend all the BOs....
This also solves issue #2 "PVDOOR" as the attack door phase (again) becomes less about hitting doors and more about BOs. Sure you will still need SOME players on Rams/Canons etc to smack the door down, but you will equally need players who are willing to roam the RVR zone, preventing a re-capture of BOs - thus healing the door making it impossible for the attacking team to bring the door down. Frankly, this makes taking an EMPTY keep a very quick endeavor as there would be no defense for BOs and the door would go down quicker. Which frankly is fine by me as long as rewards scale (which they do) based on defense.
Now, as for the pioneer issue. I think I have a simple solution there. Provide "rewards" for BOs just like in Tier 3 (400 renown 150 influence?) But possibly MORE and have it spread across the entire zone (not including warcamps). Lets say you set the rewards @ 1,000 renown and "400 influence". is the TOTAL reward for a BO.
So 6 players go into a COMPLETELY EMPTY zone, start capping BOs. The 1,000 renown and 400 influence gets SPLIT between EVERYONE in the lakes at the time. 6 in this case. So they each start getting (1000/6) = 166 renown and 67 influence. Not too shabby.
Now lets say a WB starts to form. There are now 15 people in the lakes. Someone takes a BO. It now would be 1,000/15 = 67 renown and 750/15 = 26 influence.
Now lets say two full WBs (50+) are in the zone. Someone caps a BO. It would give 1,000 / 50 = only 20 renown and 8 influence.
So this solves the pioneer issue as it gets people to WANT to start RvR, however once there is sufficient numbero f players the rewards decrease BECAUSE there are more players. But! Think about this...
Once there is a zerg on one side, AAO happens for the opposing faction. They start to say "hey! 400% AAO in Dwarf!" They get 6 guys to go cap a BO and boom. They get (166 renown and 67 influence) EACH * the AAO multiplier (or not.. Just an idea).
So it starts heavily rewarding some defense - not to mention then that ONE BO take royally messes with that 50+ Warbands desire to take the keep by wounds buffing the door. So now half the WB splits off to re-cap the BO, and now has to wait while its locked for 3:00. They kill the Hero quick after 3:00 but alas! Another BO is taken... They start splitting up and by this time, more opposing faction has entered and now its a few parties dropping Oil/defense while another 2 parties are ninja-capping BOs. Now you have a mass battle SPREAD OUT in RvR lakes, not just two big WBs opposing eachother at the keep.
I think this would solve the FUN issue, solve the "lack of rewards" issue, solve the "pioneer" issue, the "PVDoor" issue etc.
You MIGHT want to consider some "faction wide" messages that tell people more info about what is where... If order caps a BO in Dwarf, it spreads that message through ALL the zones in Tier 4 Dwarf. People will get the word out quick and due to the scaling reward system and focus on BOs. RvR will be HUGE!