Best way to play dps WP?

[Culdu]

... really ... ok, to peterthepan
your 1.
Guess we have here the perfect answer to the question the Thread is about, don't skill full/only wrath. But that is ... well perhaps only in my opinion also the same with dok. As I said you don't take the full spot of a "real" dd. Coz you are simply missing debuffs and mobility. Dok has this really good healreduce which makes off a lot, with devour essence as burst is fine. I'm still, even with playing dok for long time and loveing it, completly sure that when only takeing the dmg/offensive compartment you should take any other dd than dok. Same MUST be with WP coz u can so so much more. You are always sitting between the chairs. As i also already wrote melee wp is more grp but can't take full healer spot ... so it just doesn't really fit in a normal setup.
But does he really have to, does every char with every skill has to fit in normal group setup ?

to your 2.
Yes wounds buff is a really nice thing.
Haveing a 3*lvl instead of a 2*lvl str buff is also kind of usefull
WP has initiative debuff instead of toughness, a mass of classes can debuff toughness(which doesn't stack as we all know) but don't know if order has the same problem but destro has not that much ini debuffs.
You have a parry buff, dok has parry debuff. Also the same with stacking and you can buff your grp with it(focus target).
Higher healing on Prayer
Dok himself procs more than wp, yes, but weren't we talking about grps?


All of that leads to exactly what I already wrote, meleewp doesn't really fit in a "normal" spot. But it doesn't make him that bad several people say. And again i also have the opinion that there need to be little adjustments but stop ignoreing what he already can only coz it doesn't really suits your idea how you want to play it.

Greetings Starilas

[peterthepan3]

You have to have played a DPS WP to see how pisspoor it is compared to a DPS DOK. A DPS DoK can fill in for a DPS to a much better degree (no, you'll never be as good as a real DPS, but watch Bretin's stream and notice how he plays the class in their 6mans AS THE MAIN ASSIST)

yes GRACE wp has a few little tricks to offer the group. the proc thing refers to how the class does a lot more damage: dual wield = more procs = more damage = better role within a GROUP as a semiDPS than a 2h WP. also the str buff isn't very useful if you have a khaine sm/kotbs, but I'll give you that.

we shall agree to disagree, but to go on and say 'there need to be little adjustments' when a large proportion of DPS/2H Wps have been very vocal on the class, and that there absolutely do need to be some adjustments (even a 50% HD would suffice initially), is ignorant.

the dps dok is an entirely different beast to the dps wp, and one's experience playing the former does not translate equally into the latter.

[Dabbart]

I don't play dessie(My Z is specifically to assist Guildies when no one else is on), but I have fought many of them with my WH. Melee DoKs are no joke. And even some of the more PUGier ones do alright.

I don't believe that this thread is about Wrath spec WPs. This is about "the best way to play a dps WP". Grace is imo the best DPS build for a WP, since you will survive far longer, and thus your avg DPS will be higher. I also disagree that it works. Yea, the numbers at the end of the SC can be decent, and sometimes downright amazing. But that means nothing. By and large you will get crushed. I have run the WP with BiS gear with tanks and a full group, top heals and top 4 damage. I felt utterly useless for 90% of the SC. My WH dies about 3-5 times an SC if I am PUGing. Sometimes much higher. Rarely do I ever feel useless. Outclassed, outnumbered, doomed to failure, sure. Never useless.

Yea, the nomenclature is such that a DPS WP is normally considered a wrath fluff AoE spec, and melee heals is grace. But alot of people call DPS DDs, and a WP that is in the main line stacking STR tali's, and who's main asset to the group(heals) is based on the damage done... Point here, maybe less arguments on semantics and more on the actual issue.

Just based on reading the OP, I think that advising for a healing was still the best answer. To make a WP a viable DPS class, one would need to radically alter it's capabilities and thus possibly empowering the backline healer even further. The only way I could see to make the build viable would to to radically increase the amount of healing received and provide some useful form of bubble absorp ability. But even then, outside of head2head combat, a melee specced WP, either DPS or melee heal is worthless.

PvE WP is a God. 1v1 melee WP rocks. 6v6 it can work. 12v12 you become assist bait, and the larger you get the more worthless you become. There is a reason for this. You're supposed to be a mid-long range survive-able healer. The 2hander is just for fun, not serious play. Imo at least.

[stormphire]

On live i played a WP for my entire time, never even made an alt (making up for that now) so i am not really able to compare WP dps to others, i can say i played all 3 specs a fair deal however snd i agree with dabbart completely.

Wrath really i only ever found a use for in pve soloing. That really was the only place for it, maybe solo roaming rvr but tbh grace did that better still imo.

Grace was fun and worked in small roaming groups of rvr or scenarios. Useless in warbands, salvation imo was still better for scens but grace at least was viable and fun in them.

Salvation was the only spec you wanted a WP to have in a Warband, and really was the most beneficial spec for scens too.

What i am trying to say is, if you want to contribute to your team winning in any team pvp, take a book and spec salvation. If you spec grace in scen its not too big a detriment and quite fun. If wrath you will hold your team back in any situation.

[peterthepan3]

to say 'wp isnt supposed to 2h/throw away the 2h' is indicative of how 2h WPs are actually perceived, i.e. their use - or lack, thereof - and it is something that hopefully the balance forums will help change.
you can go grace and be somewhat effective, but you're not going to be offering anything a book can't do but 10x better.

[Ridduk]

to say 'wp isnt supposed to 2h/throw away the 2h' is indicative of how 2h WPs are actually perceived, i.e. their use - or lack, thereof - and it is something that hopefully the balance forums will help change.
you can go grace and be somewhat effective, but you're not going to be offering anything a book can't do but 10x better.

To be fair many ppl feel this way in regards to dps doks v chalice/heal as well.

[urururu]

closest I came on live (rr80+) on my WP was to DPS was in PVE. my WP was amazing in TOVL xD. sure while leveling T1-T3 I played melee and it was great. but in T4 it just got worse and worse with the armor stacking. play a real dps class and you'll see why. sorry.

I'd recommend if u want to be "in the fray" and not feel like a boring healbot you spec full defense, gird your loin with exalted defense, and get in there! melee range but full heal tank WP is kind of fun.

[peterthepan3]

to say 'wp isnt supposed to 2h/throw away the 2h' is indicative of how 2h WPs are actually perceived, i.e. their use - or lack, thereof - and it is something that hopefully the balance forums will help change.
you can go grace and be somewhat effective, but you're not going to be offering anything a book can't do but 10x better.

To be fair many ppl feel this way in regards to dps doks v chalice/heal as well.

difference being starilas and bretin have shown that the DPS DOK can function as a DPS or a secondary healer in a 6v6 to some degree (remains to be seen in T4, however, but I can't imagine the class falling off that much)

[Tsokushin]

Just based on reading the OP, I think that advising for a healing was still the best answer. To make a WP a viable DPS class, one would need to radically alter it's capabilities and thus possibly empowering the backline healer even further. The only way I could see to make the build viable would to to radically increase the amount of healing received and provide some useful form of bubble absorp ability. But even then, outside of head2head combat, a melee specced WP, either DPS or melee heal is worthless.

I don't think buffing grace or wrath would improve backline healing any. Especially considering that most of of these masteries buff only things used in close range (where a backline should never be). But yes, a wrath dps I've found to be dealing less damage than other melee dps and far less survivable. It's a very big problem. It would go a long way to making some of the WP debuffs stackable with other class debuffs.

But, rather than make this into a balance debate, has anyone any input on surviving from ranged casters? I've been getting melted by sorceresses lately. Is it worth it speccing into disrupt renown talents?

[Ainianu]

But, rather than make this into a balance debate, has anyone any input on surviving from ranged casters? I've been getting melted by sorceresses lately. Is it worth it speccing into disrupt renown talents?

I find just being out of range the only sure way, as grace (or wrath if your a masochist) you will get melted by sorcs. If you are determined to melee and be in their target window, stack corporeal and spirit resists if you can, including a potion (i tend to go corporeal for potion), other than that... Renown disrupt traits is all i can think of, and all the other defensive ones such as lower crit chances.