[White Lion] Pounce need a Cooldown

[Penril]

You do realize that server lag/latency effectively disables pounce for a few seconds in certain situations, right? Especially if the WL pounces into a knockback, the pounce bugs out and there's extreme delay.

Server lag/latency affects all classes. Also, that is a server issue and has nothing to do with balance.

Also, your 'WL pressures backline" scenario works really well if nobody is paying any attention to the WL at all. TTK is so low in RoR that going rambo into the backlines with pounce is going to get any WL popped in under 3 seconds. Pouncing into the backline like that is really, really dumb and gets so many WLs killed needlessly. Your situation requires the destro to be completely oblivious to the WL's existence.

Except you don't go Rambo to the destro backline. You wait for an opportunity and then assist your MA. Yeah, usually mDPS classes are the main assist. This is not necessarily the case with WL, who can easily assist any rDPS in his group thanks to Pounce. In fact it makes WL the best melee class for assisting rDPS. SW is an excellent choice for MA in this setup. You know this perfectly well.

Also, @ everyone saying it's okay for WLs to not have any CC that they can control because other classes can provide the CC for them: That's unacceptable. Literally every other class can rely upon themselves to be able to provide CC to the team, WL shouldn't be an exception to this. It's a BS argument to say it's not a game based around 1v1s, because CC timing is equally important in group fights.

It's not based around 1v1s, and it won't be based around 1v1s. Devs have said so several times now. Better accept it.

Every class should have all their abilities functioning as intended, full stop. It's unacceptable that WL is 100% dependent upon a group if they want to have ANY forms of CC.

Pretty sure WL has a core ST snare (pet has one too), core pull, ST 4 sec silence, and can spec for a KD on the pet.

Also, if you're a healer getting killed to ONLY pouncespam, you are probably unskilled and need to learn to hit the detaunt button or develop a heal rotation that won't be bursted through by a weak ability hitting you once a GCD. Pounce does way less base damage than most of the other WL abilities. If you died to pounce spam, you would probably die to torment spam in a quarter of the time.

Tell me: what is the heal rotation when you are KD from a SW/BW and you have a WL immediately on top of you? Also, no one is complaining about Pounce spamming as in: I died to a WL spamming Pounce. They complain because of the mobility it gives the WL (pretty much immune to punts).

If you lose a keep due to some unguarded, unhealed WLs on the walls, you were probably going to lose that keep anyways. Unsupported WL is one of the easiest classes to nuke from range. Stop scapegoating a single ability to justify your loss.

We agree on this one. However we are not talking about unsupported WL.

[mdillard]

Until I glanced at this thread, I wasn't entirely sure what pounce was all about, I'm still not.
As a destro player of squishy classes I have known the pain of close encounters with WL's.
However, I didn't realize that the dependability of pounce with regards to getting close enough to deal damage was questionable.
I do know that < 100% of WL pounces on me resulted in death, or even significant damage.
I don't think this ability is broken.
If it was even 90% dependable for getting in position to apply burst I would say maybe a 10s CD.
The reason I say that, is as a traditional player of rogue classes, and Mara/WL fit that template somewhat, their burstiness and elusiveness is compensation for being as squishy as some caster types.
I think of shadow step, a rogue ability in wow, if you took the least effort to set it up, it is virtually 100% dependable in setting up a burst or CC combo, and it has only a 10s CD.
If pounce is as catch as catch may as these posts are saying, it's more like a blink spell with no CD, that requires a target to cast it.
If you were going to apply a CD to it, that would need to be compensated with a higher factor of dependability for chaining with other skills for CC and burst.
I guess I'm going to have to make a WL and level it enough to experiment with this, because now I'm curious.
But it's good to be mindful of summoning the nerf hammer on other classes than your own, you never know when you might come under the gun.
It's not about trying to make somebody weaker for your e-peen, it's about keeping the game alive and diverse, with plenty of reasons to roll any class or faction.

[Liandel]

You do realize that server lag/latency effectively disables pounce for a few seconds in certain situations, right? Especially if the WL pounces into a knockback, the pounce bugs out and there's extreme delay.

Server lag/latency affects all classes. Also, that is a server issue and has nothing to do with balance.

Also, your 'WL pressures backline" scenario works really well if nobody is paying any attention to the WL at all. TTK is so low in RoR that going rambo into the backlines with pounce is going to get any WL popped in under 3 seconds. Pouncing into the backline like that is really, really dumb and gets so many WLs killed needlessly. Your situation requires the destro to be completely oblivious to the WL's existence.

Except you don't go Rambo to the destro backline. You wait for an opportunity and then go for it. If you fail, you Pounce back and try it again after a few seconds.

Also, @ everyone saying it's okay for WLs to not have any CC that they can control because other classes can provide the CC for them: That's unacceptable. Literally every other class can rely upon themselves to be able to provide CC to the team, WL shouldn't be an exception to this. It's a BS argument to say it's not a game based around 1v1s, because CC timing is equally important in group fights.

It's not based around 1v1s, and it won't be based around 1v1s. Devs have said so several times now. Better accept it.

Every class should have all their abilities functioning as intended, full stop. It's unacceptable that WL is 100% dependent upon a group if they want to have ANY forms of CC.

Pretty sure WL has a core ST snare (pet has one too), core pull, ST 4 sec silence, and can spec for a KD on the pet.

Also, if you're a healer getting killed to ONLY pouncespam, you are probably unskilled and need to learn to hit the detaunt button or develop a heal rotation that won't be bursted through by a weak ability hitting you once a GCD. Pounce does way less base damage than most of the other WL abilities. If you died to pounce spam, you would probably die to torment spam in a quarter of the time.

Tell me: what is the heal rotation when you are KD from a SW/BW and you have a WL immediately on top of you? Also, no one is complaining about Pounce spamming as in: I died to a WL spamming Pounce. They complain because of the mobility it gives the WL (pretty much immune to punts).

If you lose a keep due to some unguarded, unhealed WLs on the walls, you were probably going to lose that keep anyways. Unsupported WL is one of the easiest classes to nuke from range. Stop scapegoating a single ability to justify your loss.

We agree on this one. However we are not talking about unsupported WL.

I NEVER SAID the inability to CC something was a 1v1 thing, YOU did. CC is something that's applicable and essential in BOTH 1v1s AND group play. Do you think a BG's kd and knockback are used ONLY in 1v1s? No, they aren't. Well-timed CC with burst is how you take apart an enemy team! That WLs are LITERALLY INCAPABLE of bringing anything to the table in that regard is a massive, glaring weakness that cannot be ignored and MUST be taken into consideration in any balance discussion.

CC IS NOT ONLY A 1V1 THING.

Also, the situation about the WL being in the backlines-how do you propose the WL survive if they have pounced beyond guard range and comfortable heal range? Since trivial blows arent' a thing, that WL has effectively terrible embraced themselves, and are in an extremely vulnerable position. If the WL is not being attacked by anything, that strategy works. For the most part, however, a WL alone in the backlines will simply get champsed, rooted, knocked down, and murdered on sight.

A lot of this pounce QQ is because WLs are on the ramparts of keeps during defenses. When a WL is on the walls of a keep, it can only receive group heals, is out of range of any guard, and is therefore inadequately supported. Therefore, "unsupported WLs' is a relevant thing, because people are whining about losing keeps to unsupported WLs.

[Scrilian]

This thread still going and not locked?

[Luicetarro]

As WL, I'm fine with adjusting the skill:

Don't jump on walls, don't jump mid-air.

It's just silly, that you can jump mid-air in general, but not gonna try to talk about 'realism' in a computergame.

Most of my pounce end up in the middle of nowhere, since my target did just walk away and I'm unable to hit it. At least I got closer by then.
But still, I'm a medicore player at best, that is puging 100% of the time. So my own experiences aren't 'well known facts', but another opinion from someone, actually playing that class.

[Kharnamatic]

Never

[nexis72]

Every class in the game has something special. Nerfing this special thing is like killing that class. Wl exept pounce dont have something awsome. Dosent have knockdown in any viable path. Dosent have incoming healing debuff. Wl dosent make huge dps as Slayer. Wl have huge ap problems. And a always buged lion. The only thing that makes wl so fun to play is pounce. Wl isnt Op. There are classes in the game that are op. These are: Mara, sh, dok, wp, slayer. I wouldnt ask nerfing these classes though. You know why? People play a class that is nurfed will be very dissapointed. This will hurt the game itself. Instead i would raise power to classes that they have not so much power(engi, zealot). And everyone is happy. And if there was something i would do to the wl is fix the always buged lion. And btw i hate sh. In all the other toons i have i suffer so much by Sh. Nerf Sh(i dont want that for real). At least i take revenge with my wl. When i see sh i kill first because i hate sh.

[Abolition]

Fix the ability so it doesn't completely negate a knockback and I'm content. It's ridiculous to knock a WL away, apply an immunity, when it can just come flying back in mid air without hitting the ground.

[davispeed]

more lol plz

[Gachimuchi]

This thread still going and not locked?

My sentiments exactly. This thread's pretense is really kind of appalling. Posts made therein by a certain balance moderator really make me worry for the future of balance in this game. The fact this thread has lasted this long is also worrying.

@ all the people whining

This game won't dumb itself down to your level just so you have to try even less. WAR is a unique game and classes aren't perfectly mirrored. If you don't want to use your brain to think of ways to improve yourself in a game, don't bother whining that everything doesn't work in your favor. It isn't white lion's pounce causing the issue, its your laziness and wanting the game to be easier. There are plenty other games you can play that are easy to play... right now. You don't have to complain that they need to be easier because they already exist. Still want to play? Stop posting your inane opinions and L2P.