KoB build and RA's for S/B

[Sigvard]

Hi!

Before you begin, dude there's already threads on this. This probably sounds snobbish, but:

They often contain pure speculation's from people who haven't played the class much. And, in the worst cases pure errors in the description of the class. As it stands right now a knight will be my main. I'm certainly no elite player but want more than speculation so would be happy if someone who played KB as their main on live servers got time to answer.

I'm there for the group so the build if T4 allows you to play up to RR 50 or more.
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=kot ... :3078:3088:
Switching "Rugged" depending on items and tallis.

My main was IB and when it comes to RA's for KoBS im totaly lost, but have thought something like this
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 3000000000
Same thing here, everything depends on items. The only thing we know is that Annihilator Armor Set is top notch

Cheers Sigvard

[Jail]

I would rather use this:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=kot ... 2:;0:0:0:0:

RR: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 0000000300

[Sigvard]

I would rather use this:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=kot ... 2:;0:0:0:0:

RR: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 0000000300

the advantage of Banish Darkness I understand and can agree with. How do you mean that a three second knock down outweighs +10% crit chans for group dmg?

Sigvard

[Keyser]

I'm there for the group so the build if T4 allows you to play up to RR 50 or more.
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=kot ... :3078:3088:
Switching "Rugged" depending on items and tallis.

Rugged (or in general toughness) is not that important for tanks because the more armor you have the less useful toughness becomes. If you want to increase your defense, use coordination.

the advantage of Banish Darkness I understand and can agree with. How do you mean that a three second knock down outweighs +10% crit chans for group dmg?

Sigvard

You only have 4 tactic slots. Unless you do not have a second kotbs in your grp there is no room to slot that tactic. If you want to slot Encouraged aim you need to get rid of one of your other tactics plus either kd or stagger and I think therefore the price is too high.
After the stagger nerf on live I tried some other specs including the +10% crit tactic instead of heal bless but after all I went back to the original spec.
So in general I agree with Jail even though I am trying some other renown abilities at the moment.

[Halhammer]

How do you mean that a three second knock down outweighs +10% crit chans for group dmg?

KD is key to get healers down, EA is nice to have but a) in for a nerf and b) people stack more crit in higher up tiers anyways, or get crit bonuses from other sources.

Rugged (or in general toughness) is not that important for tanks because the more armor you have the less useful toughness becomes

And because of the (ridiculously) high armour values every tank stacks toughnes for PvP. Of course toughness is important, especially the higher up you go, and you feel the difference between 700 and 850. Not so much when you have two competent healers in your group but defo without them.
So with a good setup you can drop Rugged. In any other case, slot it in.

[Keyser]

Rugged (or in general toughness) is not that important for tanks because the more armor you have the less useful toughness becomes

And because of the (ridiculously) high armour values every tank stacks toughnes for PvP. Of course toughness is important, especially the higher up you go, and you feel the difference between 700 and 850. Not so much when you have two competent healers in your group but defo without them.
So with a good setup you can drop Rugged. In any other case, slot it in.

That is simply not true. You will never have that much armor that after the debuffs and armor penetration you are still above the cap. Only if that would be the case, toughness would be better. And due to the order of mitigation (first toughness, then resistances) my statement holds. Before you stack toughness there are more important defensive stats you should take care of (such as block, parry, armor, maybe even wounds).

Again, if you want to increase your defense and you have to decide between +160 toughness by rugged or +15% parry by coordination there is not much to think about. This decision is a no brainer.

[Halhammer]

That is simply not true. You will never have that much armor that after the debuffs and armor penetration you are still above the cap. Only if that would be the case, toughness would be better. And due to the order of mitigation (first toughness, then resistances) my statement holds. Before you stack toughness there are more important defensive stats you should take care of (such as block, parry, armor, maybe even wounds).

Again, if you want to increase your defense and you have to decide between +160 toughness by rugged or +15% parry by coordination there is not much to think about. This decision is a no brainer.

Ofc block or parry is the first defensive stat you'll want to get high up, with big enough block rates you dont even need parry.
Damage mitigation by armour is capped at 75%, and you get to 100-120% easy thats why on live tanks in DF or WF + armour pot had absolutely no point in stackin more armour... and with more armour ignoring abilities in the game there goes another point. Armour is super OP in T1 and T2 even, it loses a lot with higher tiers. Except with PvE ofc.

[Sigvard]

Thank you all, to sum up a bit.

I know that toughness is calculated before armor and the mechanics behind it and of course also that I only have 4 tactic slots. What I don't know about is, the EA nerf. Please explain and is ther more things which differs from live? I did not pay attention to the 3 sec stagger, assumed that it was 5 :-/

Regardign def. stats... How would you spend your rlm skill points? Since I had 3000 hours + on my IB but never played knight I have tried to imagine myself in the difference. This was what I came up with (ofc everything depends on what items I get).

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 3000000000


Sigvard

[Keyser]

First of all, before I want to know how to skill my tank, I take a look at my most feared opponents. In most situations these are melee trains for me and not so often rdds. With that said I see parry and block almost equally. Blocking is only better if you are focused by range dds but like I said before this is not very often the case (even if your guarded mate is attacked by a rdd you are still able to parry that guard dmg).
If you have another opinion regarding your opponents I am totally cool with that. This is just my experience from scenarios.

Ofc block or parry is the first defensive stat you'll want to get high up, with big enough block rates you dont even need parry.

I do not know how you spec. Therefore I cannot say if your chance to block is larger (including shield rush) than your chance to parry. In my case I have a higher chance to parry and therefore 1% more parry is better for me than 1% more block.



Why?

Spoiler:

Some math:
If we want to calculate the expected incoming dmg we use the formula: E(inc dmg) = (1 - parry%)*(1- block%)*dmg . Our goal is to minimize that expectation over parry% and block% under the condition that we can only invest a certain value in both stats, i.e. if we want to invest 1% more in block we need to decrease parry by 1%. This is just approximately realistic since parry is cheaper regarding renown points but it does not hurt the conclusion, because in my case parry% is larger.

Lets denote by
x = (parry% + block%)/2
the mean and by
u = x - (1-parry%) = (1-block%) - x
the distance between those stats and their mean. Then we can minimize the formula over u instead of parry% and block%. Thus, we get

E(inc dmg) = (1 - parry%)(1- block%)*dmg = (x - u)(x + u)*dmg = (x^2 - u^2)*dmg .

Therefore, if we want to minimize this we choose u as big as possible, i.e. we should invest as many points as possible in either block% or parry%.

For zerging and city sieges blocking will be better of course.

Damage mitigation by armour is capped at 75%, and you get to 100-120% easy thats why on live tanks in DF or WF + armour pot had absolutely no point in stackin more armour... and with more armour ignoring abilities in the game there goes another point. Armour is super OP in T1 and T2 even, it loses a lot with higher tiers. Except with PvE ofc.

Like I said in my previous post: you will not be above the cap after armor debuffs and armor penetration.

Edit:

Regardign def. stats... How would you spend your rlm skill points? Since I had 3000 hours + on my IB but never played knight I have tried to imagine myself in the difference. This was what I came up with (ofc everything depends on what items I get).

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 3000000000

If you do not want to follow Jails build and go more defensive I would start here
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 0000000000

and then invest the last 10 points in something else. To be honest I am not sure how I would spend the last points: Quick Escape would be nice if it would work, deft defender is ok as well, str to bypass parry (does that actually work in RoR??), ...

[Pi3b0y]

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=kot ... 084:3087:0:

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#renown;000 ... 0000000000

My build. Also, toughness talis and init talis.
Contrary to popular consensus, I don't touch block with renown points. I primarily focus on toughness and chance to be crit. I've had great success with this. Also, tough aura, resist aura, damage back aura. If I'm running with a group, I'll run the heal debuff aura.

Of course, this build makes you more of a rock and less of a group assister, but I find that, especially in ORVR situations, a hefty damage taker can be vital to block enemies or harass healers without fear of dying quickly.