[PROPOSITION] Caledor Woods awards medallions

[Jaycub]

jaycub its one thing to balance towards 6v6, thats all fine and dandy but its another to ask for additional rewards to be implemented into that mode because not everyone is interested in that mode and furthermore to complain that devs are not catering towards 6v6.

I'm not complaining, the devs have taken the first step required to create a competitive scene on warhammer that was essentially dead on arrival on live. I also understand they have more important things to do than flesh out 6v6, but that doesn't mean we cant talk about what needs to be done or criticize it.

It's pretty much objective at this point that the current "scene" is dead, pops are terribly erratic and slow apart from certain nights where we try to get people to que up and even then its 3 or 4 guilds total. Incentivising people to que for 6v6 isn't a bad thing.

Scenario and the 6v6/competitive scenario scene is it own bubbles and doesn't effect people who don't wish to participate in it. However balancing the game around 6v6 will effect everyone, while I shill for the game to be balanced around 6v6, I just think it's scary that you would think balancing the game around it is fine but asking the devs to create a competitive scenario scene isn't unless I am understanding you wrong.

[tomato]

Let me explain you the importance of objectives in WAR/RoR:
It doesn't exist more or less. It never had any.
WAR was always about killing stuff. That's why a lot of people liked it. If you want strategical objective based gameplay you should either go for gw2 or mobas. Or shooters. There are a lot capture the flag based games, WAR isn't one of them.

I think you're confusing the fact that you choose to ignore objectives in your prefered part of the game with those objectives not existing. Maybe you're the one who should be playing a different game.


Can someone explain to me why the devs should waste their time catering to the, what, 1% of the playerbase for whom nothing is ever good enough?

Allright I'm going to make a 3 healer 3 deftard tank group than and camp on the flag in caledor woods. Nice, we obviously one through superior gameplay.

The complete class synergy is based on running around as 6 people.

Meanwhile in Guild Wars 2 you don't have that synergy. Instead you have specialists in flag defence like a trap ranger which whole build is made for holding a flag. (Haven't played it for a long while, so things could have changed)

But, a def tank can hold a flag alone for a long time! Yes, and his guard ability is completly wasted while doing this.

You can go all in for playing the objective, just send deftards to every flag, best with crossguard.
That's the best way of "playing the objective" in WAR. And it surely is enormous fun.

[Shadowgurke]

Encouraging people to run a premade will fix so many things. Someone who never played in one or just once or twice cant imagine.

Encouraging people to run premades is very important. But making CW more rewarding is probably not going to change that. I've said it when EC was first discussed, the playerbase is not big enough. Even with 5 groups queuing at the same time, what will happen is that 4 groups get constantly killed without a real chance to fight back and then stop trying.

For you, getting killed is probably a motivation to get better. For the majority of players, it's not. And that mentality is not exclusive to Warhammer. I understand your intention is to get more players to play 6v6, what most players read is that you want "your elitist prick premade get even more stuff then you already get".

[Jaycub]

Allright I'm going to make a 3 healer 3 deftard tank group than and camp on the flag in caledor woods. Nice, we obviously one through superior gameplay.

The complete class synergy is based on running around as 6 people.

Meanwhile in Guild Wars 2 you don't have that synergy. Instead you have specialists in flag defence like a trap ranger which whole build is made for holding a flag. (Haven't played it for a long while, so things could have changed)

But, a def tank can hold a flag alone for a long time! Yes, and his guard ability is completly wasted while doing this.

You can go all in for playing the objective, just send deftards to every flag, best with crossguard.
That's the best way of "playing the objective" in WAR. And it surely is enormous fun.

If this is true than it just shows how terribly built objective based scenarios have always been, and it presents an opportunity for the devs to correct that.

WAR can very well have competitive objective based gameplay as much as it can have deathmatch. But because the game has historically on live never had any kind of competitive match making, or focus on 6v6 at all these types of things never get found out or even if they did it was never a concern.

[tomato]

Encouraging people to run a premade will fix so many things. Someone who never played in one or just once or twice cant imagine.

Encouraging people to run premades is very important. But making CW more rewarding is probably not going to change that. I've said it when EC was first discussed, the playerbase is not big enough. Even with 5 groups queuing at the same time, what will happen is that 4 groups get constantly killed without a real chance to fight back and then stop trying.

For you, getting killed is probably a motivation to get better. For the majority of players, it's not. And that mentality is not exclusive to Warhammer. I understand your intention is to get more players to play 6v6, what most players read is that you want "your elitist prick premade get even more stuff then you already get".

Every idea which encourages people to form premades is welcome. If you have some better ones than proposed, go at it.

@Jayclub: Well tell me how you beat the 3 tanks and heals laming in caledor woods when coming a bit to late into the scenario.
You can't.

War just isn't made for objective based gameplay. Especially in comparison to gw2.

[Renork]

One:

6v6 competitive is done for the pure "e-sport", not the rewards. A lot of you fail to remember that MJ wasn't the creator of World of Warcraft, he was in charge of Dark Age of Camelot. Thus we have keeps starting at tier 2. ORVR is/was the ultimate objective, not scenarios. They added scenarios to lure in WoW players (some of you). In DAOC we had 8v8's (which were a lot harder than 6v6's here, the interrupt system penalized you heavily and you simply couldn't just loldetauntcastaway like in WAR/ROR). The rewards were simply realm points (aka renown on WAR).

Two:

You obviously are a minority, and you always be a minority in almost every game out there. If you REALLY consider yourself such competitive people, why are you playing a game that failed and runs as a emulator? There's plenty of competitive games out there that were created exclusively for people like you, who see online gaming as an "e-sport". If people were truly into the 6v6, then you would have constant pops for Caledor Woods. Yet, they are VERY scarce. I wonder why? Majority of people play for fun/distraction, not everyone out there plays this to be the "best". Once again, there's plenty of other games out that there that challenge you to be the "best". Why on earth are you playing ROR if you consider yourselves so skilled? Heck, you could be making money if you played a different game.

Three:

Should you get medallions? Sure, but the drop rate should be low. By the way, 8 Man fights in DAOC happened in open field, later in agramon. There were no "lolscenarios" (battlegrounds didn't count).

Four:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 6v6 is not important; however, asking to receive rewards just for doing scenarios is silly. If you hate ORVR, then don't play it, but you're playing a game based on ORVR. Sorry?

Edit: TL;DR, game will not change based on your constant crying. If there is one similarity between the "leet" 8-man's in daoc (the obnoxious ones that no one liked, ever) and the 6 man's here is the amount of bitching that both do. The game doesn't revolve around your needs. Hate zerging? Then go play arena games? Or you can continue whining about how a ORVR game should be changed to meet your needs.

[Shadowgurke]

If this is true than it just shows how terribly built objective based scenarios have always been, and it presents an opportunity for the devs to correct that.

WAR can very well have competitive objective based gameplay as much as it can have deathmatch. But because the game has historically on live never had any kind of competitive match making, or focus on 6v6 at all these types of things never get found out or even if they did it was never a concern.

WAR is probably the only MMO that heavily concentrates on actual combat rather than playing the objective. Point control always resorts in some form of deftard favored meta (eg. Guild Wars), which is precisely why Scenarios are often lopsided: If you don't win a direct confrontation, you won't win the map.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

Encouraging people to run a premade will fix so many things. Someone who never played in one or just once or twice cant imagine.

Encouraging people to run premades is very important. But making CW more rewarding is probably not going to change that. I've said it when EC was first discussed, the playerbase is not big enough. Even with 5 groups queuing at the same time, what will happen is that 4 groups get constantly killed without a real chance to fight back and then stop trying.

For you, getting killed is probably a motivation to get better. For the majority of players, it's not. And that mentality is not exclusive to Warhammer. I understand your intention is to get more players to play 6v6, what most players read is that you want "your elitist prick premade get even more stuff then you already get".

It is not about failing it is about setting up a grp in the first place and get to know a whole new world.
High and unique rewards could do that. Maybe gold rewards if we can somehow fight inflation.
I dont really want to argue too much about the kind of rewards given just that encouraging setting up grps should be a priority. More fun and more competition for everyone. I really dont see on how you could lose on that. Meeting nice people having decent fights, isnt that what a game should be about? Zerging is definitely not what a game should be about.

[Shadowgurke]

One:

6v6 competitive is done for the pure "e-sport", not the rewards.

Afaik you don't play competitive 6v6. So why would you know why people do it?

In DAOC we had 8v8's (which were a lot harder than 6v6's here, the interrupt system penalized you heavily and you simply couldn't just loldetauntcastaway like in WAR/ROR). The rewards were simply realm points (aka renown on WAR).

By simple realm points you mean more RP than almost every other action in DAoC, except for zerg farming? Not to mention that NOTHING you did in DAoC gave you anything but RP except PvE?
8v8 that was never fostered until they made a tournament and all of a sudden people realized that it's awesome and maybe they should have promoted it earlier? Yes I like your example.

If you REALLY consider yourself such competitive people, why are you playing a game that failed and runs as a emulator? There's plenty of competitive games out there that were created exclusively for people like you, who see online gaming as an "e-sport". If people were truly into the 6v6, then you would have constant pops for Caledor Woods. Yet, they are VERY scarce. I wonder why? Majority of people play for fun/distraction, not everyone out there plays this to be the "best". Once again, there's plenty of other games out that there that challenge you to be the "best". Why on earth are you playing ROR if you consider yourselves so skilled? Heck, you could be making money if you played a different game.

First of, you again seem to know what these people want to play better than they do themselves. "Competitive" fights in MMO is something we rarely get. Especially progression based ones.

Secondly, yes, 6v6 is niche. What Wingz is saying, and I heavily agree with him, is that a lot of players would really love to play 6v6 if they tried it once. If they had a group to play with. And the chance to learn without getting facerolled. Hence promoting 6v6 is healthy for the game. Obviously this is something I can't prove at all, but just keep this in mind.

Three:

Should you get medallions? Sure, but the drop rate should be low. By the way, 8 Man fights in DAOC happened in open field, later in agramon. There were no "lolscenarios" (battlegrounds didn't count).

And one of the issues with DAoC 8v8 was that there wasn't a simple way to organize it without adds

[Razid1987]

As predicted, the same people who seem to oppose anything premade-centric are out in force.

As predicted, the same people who didn't agree with me before, still disagree with me. Unheard of!

In all seriousness though, why should you get everything from just doing SCs, when ORvR players are forced to do SCs as well to get everything?