(Mythic) origins of balance

[TenTonHammer]

Except choppas cannot put any where near the output in AoE as slayers because choppas AoE is garbage which is what in all your theory crafting pen and paper O&G you have choppas doing,secondly slayers DO have heal debuff specd in AoE spec

[footpatrol2]

Damage value's have been screwed around a lot in this game so whatever.

I bet a Greenskinz warband couldn't stop a dwarf warband to getting to a keep. It would harass and has potential to beat it but can't Orc Smash it. If a Dwarf warband has to get to a keep unsupported by a high elf warband and the lakes are dominated by a greenskin warband it would as a warband switch tactics to have armor. You can't fight a greenskins warband like Dwarves want too. Our healers are behind a sea of snares. The greenskin warband would make it horribly painful to get there. The greenskinz warband is buying time for the Dark elf warband. If the dark elf warband got to the Dwarf warband out side of a keep its done. The Dwarf warband can't play keep defense tricks out in the open with their bombs.

The dwarf warband could slot on the fly a armor tactic and constantly keep mountain spirit up because it was 30 seconds Long. This makes the dwarf warband incredibly tough to beat by the Greenskinz warband.

A chaos warband could slot Warped flesh to mitigate the spirit damage.

With the 6 man Bomb group idea of having damage as your defense for your healers and expanding that to a warband level. The chaos/dwarf warband Also by default have to move slow to keep their damage up So they Can't have a Orc smash team thrown at em or equivalent in HE. If you did Dwarf/Chaos bomb. HE and Greenskins don't have access to amazing morale bombs like Dwarves and chaos. This is Dwarves/Chaos's defense against them and keeps HE/greenskinz away. I bet dwarves and chaos would have to slightly spread out. For when A morale push happens like a Orc Smash team comes at them Which happens earlier then dwarves m4. But you have armored plating from Engie which happens early too.The Dwarves would have a bite taken out of them but you'll be close to a m4. But you can mass rez with grimnir's fury. You don't need many m4's for a good bomb. The greenskinz would have to Kill everyone within a minute. If 6 or 8 are alive Dwarves have a strong enough bomb to wipe orc smash team. Then Grimnir's Fury. Once Dwarves are full bomb mode Greenskinze can't touch em. Same with High elves.


I'm pretty sure a greenskinz warband can Punk any group based around BW's.

Obviously the opposite is the same.

For Fun Lets completely take away the Racial aspect of the game.

I'm building my 12 man premade for 10 1600 dmg moral m4 bombs. We can do this on the server. I'm in my warcamp and a different premade is out there dominating. Cool. I'll sit right outside my warcamp. Let some retard attacks me. Good I'm building moral's. I'll let the retard to keep attacking me and I won't kill him. I'll cc him away I want him to attack me. I go in the heart of everything happening. I'll start to cycle 8k morale bombs every 30 sec's or just 4k morale dumps against scrubs because I know there is a premade out there and I need to save a 10+ morale dump for them.

I'll Slowly eat everything. Premade dominating the lakes engages. I'll dump my 12000 dmg morale. Premade not built around a morale dump done. They are in a rez cycle. clean it up.

I'm breaking the playerbase meta with these morale bombs.

I'll run a 12 man morale bomb group into a SC. If your not a 12 man and your a 6 man. I'll engage for fun figure out oh another premade thats a 6 man. cool. Sit in my graveyard and bait for a retard to attack. I'll let the retard attack. I'll move to the premade M4 bomb done.

If your 12 man premade that doesn't know about m4 bombs vs my 12 man bomb happens. I'll let you attack me at the graveyard. Good. M4 bomb.

If I'm a 12 man m4 bomb group fighting in the lakes and you bring a 12 man non bomb group. There is a high chance my morals are up. Sure you'll wipe me once. But now I know your there. m4 Morale Bomb Grps wins man. Control the retard in the lakes attacking me you can't. AoE stagger me. I probably have 1 or 2 gcd before I die to a classic sorc/bw grp. All I need is 1 gcd. Your non m4 bomb group can't handle me.

Melee train I'll m4 bomb you.

Sure you might dominate some scrubs in the SC's But in the Lakes m4 morale Bomb grps win everytime racial or not. You can't beat me unless you build m4 Bomb or try and take me out at range.

[roadkillrobin]

Well we have Choppas in the theory crafting coz: 1 Chop Fasta have increadble synnergy with alot of other AoE abillties, just not the Choppa itself. Choppa is actually part of the meta group aswell, coz of the buffs chop Fasta gives to sorcs.
2: The dmg isn't that much worse then Slayers. If you eqip a 2hander. Drop Git to da Choppa. Run crit build with SYG, Jagged Edge, the dmg is failry close. Just not as bursty.
Choppas have Healdebuff specced for AoE aswell

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=chp ... :4685:4710:

[TenTonHammer]

50 diffrent race specfic only warbands comming out of every where running to forts and **** can see when penril and others stopped caring, for the record a DE only warband is awful the 4 classes have no snyergy bar BG Wp buff for DoK

if you go 2H, you are going single target st cannot equal slayers AoE + ST prowess with ID

[footpatrol2]

Forget about race.

Look if I have a m4 bomb grp in a keep and your trying to take it with your non m4 bomb grp you can't.

My 12 man m4 bomb grp in a keep trumps your 12 man non m4 bomb. Stop a retard attacking me. The reasons Why BW and sorc do crazy damage upfront is too kill my Bomb grp before they m4 bomb you.

If my m4 Bomb 12 man is in a keep your not coming in. Everyone has to stop fighting so I lose morale then the BW/Sorc burn me down before I can morale dump you. Which by the way in my opinion is what they were designed to do.

This game is all about morale dumps.

now back to racials. Racial groups built Morale the fastest.

So no synergy with Empire and Dark elf?

Chaos and dwarves are keep defensive and depend on cycling morales to keep you away.
Empire and dark elves were designed to Crack keeps and break defenses. You probably have a Bomb designed to do this.

kotbs solar flare everyone loses all thier morale within 30 ft morale.
Black guard in malekith's name AoE silence 5 sec
All 3 of the witch elf m4's are good for breaking a keep defense.
All 3 of the witchhunters m4's are good for breaking a keep defense.
OMG crippling terror is horrendous in breaking a keep defense.

with Dark elves and Empire you don't even need to wait for the chaos/dwarf morales to die down.

I'm pretty sure thousand and one eyes DOk m4 was 30sec so you could have cycle'd it. You could have 2 of those Dok's the rest of the grp 4 witch elves for assassin squads. You could do the same with gift of life with WP and witch hunters. Remeber drop your 6 man grp mindset and pick up your 24 man set.

Look the player base already figured out how to build the 12 man super hard nut to crack Bomb groups with Sorc's/BW. This is your heart of your warband you rez and do your main healing from here and move as a team.

You build your 3rd and 4th grp to flavor. Do you want 2 assassin squads or 2 ranged sorc's or 1 of each? 2 DoK with thousand eye's Cycle 4 witch elf's each. Thats 4 Dok's and 8 witch elves. That is MEAN as HELL and so so dirty. Why?? you need those witch elves killing AM's. They will likely have at least 10 AM's some unguarded because you just straight don't need that many tanks. Your DoK's are tough enough to push ahead of the 12 man you just need to get out of LoS and start AoE healing. BECAUSE DoK's are suppose to support your assassin squads to rip apart the keep defense. Your assassin squad dies move your iron hard 12 man to rez them Your damage is your defense in your iron hard grp. Your Dok's are suppose to move to the keeps edge cycle thousand eye's and keep your assassin teams up either by witches fighting on the ramparts or whatever.

I don't think your Dok/WP healers are part of your morale bomb.

Take a look at this Morale DE bomb you could do with your assassin team with your witches. Take a twelve man 4 dok's 8 witches. 4 dok's stack against the keep wall AoE heal. 8 witches enter the keep a mix bag of path of suffering and carnage. All 8 pop morale 4 at once and start to Slaughter. Thats 12800 damage over 5 sec's. Thats a hell of a lot of pressure coming really quick. Max health is what 10K ish? Your definately killing stuff which ruins my dwarf morale bomb. If I'm a dwarf warband leader and I'm facing dark elves. I know I'm screwed. I have to keep damage on the back door. I can't Allow that kind of bomb to enter. I can't play morale m4 bomb tricks at the keep door as well.

Lets go dirty. If i'm a DE warband leader and I know I have support from my Greenskins warband OR I know noyone can pull the kind of organization I can and I know in the current meta I can pull grps the way I want too. I won't even take any tanks. I'll take 8 Dok's and 16 witch elves. Oh there is a premade holding a keep? good. An idiot that wants to be part of the keep defense attacks your Dok's which start to heal which puts all your WE's gaining morale OR You just have the witches throw a knife at the door. Done your witches are gaining morale. I'll plant a couple of standards in front of your keep just to let you know I'm there. Come out I beg for you to take my standards. I'm here to do what my DE guild and warband do best with is PUNK you and take your keep. As DE That is my specialty and I say that when I'm recruiting for new players. Play around the keep killing anything that gets close get your m4 bomb ready. All Dok's move to the keep wall and start AoE healing Cycle Thousand Eye's. 16 Witches pile in the keep. Pop your m4 for 25600 damage over 5 sec's NOTHING CAN SURVIVE THIS. No current premade meta can survive what I just described. But I can probably only do it a couple of times till people figure out what I'm doing. Thats only one GCD. You only have 5 sec's to respond to what I did to you before your dead. I don't even need to let you know I'm coming. I can get morale out in the lakes from random people. You should be Horrifically TERRIFIED of my DE warband of witches. You think If I was able to pull this off that the Playerbase wouldn't just LOSE THIER MINDS and rally behind what I'm talking about? You have to admit What I'm talking about is freaking BAD ASS.

Do you want 2 Long range AoE squads? 2 Dok's 4 Sorc's each. so 4 dok's 8 sorc's. Its flippin brutal.

Do you want Range support? 2 Dok's 8 long range AoE bomb's to assist with your 12 man moving.

This is group 3 and 4.

Lets play around with some black guards and kotbs. Lets go with a semi more durable assassin squads.

2 Black guard 4 Dok's and 6 Witches 12 man. Please note this is after you have built your rock hard 12man DE bomb. Dok's cycle Thousand eyes break LoS. All I see are the tanks. Are they retards? or are they premades? I don't know. As a High elf Warband leader I don't know if I'm about to be Jumped by Witches and have my AM's destroyed which are critical to controlling the lakes or if he is a idiot. I'll HAVE to have my WL start throwing out passive AoE around my AM's to try and draw them out. My Morale bomb is set with my HE warband. But you have BG's approaching me. I can't Bomb you purely from the Threat of WE's. HE Bomb is tied to WL's. I need my WL to protect my AM's. All I can do is make it a pain in the ass for you too get to the keep. But You can't fully engage the keep because I'm applying pressure. If I send in WL to iron hard DE 12 man to bomb Which I can easily destroy due to Am m3, Witches pop out Dok's come out from hiding. Also note I'm fully engaged with your iron hard bomb grp that I HAVE to keep snared or they will eat me. You start to kill my AM's. You have the potential to beat my HE warband but the odds are stacked on my side with my ranged AoE silence coming from my m3 AM's. HE's have tools to make your life hell as a DE warband.

Did you ever want to play a dps WP or Dok but were told in the current meta they are dumb? In what I'm talking about you can. First build your 12 man iron hard bomb as your base. Instead of witches or more sorc's go 3 black guard 3 dps Dok. Guard the Dok's. Hell bring 6 Dps Dok's and 6 BG's ITS MEAN.

I'm sure there are more morale pushes you could do I just quickly looked up one.

The synergy just goes on and on and on. Redundancy makes your playstyle stronger.

ALSO note: your witch elf and Witchhunter assassin teams are tearing apart my dwarf/chaos morale bombs by single target killing. Which by the way were the only classes that could enter a keep at release. Ya your assassin teams will die but your decreasing my superior morale bombs damage.

Other racial warbands can obviously take a keep but not like Dark elves/Empire. And definitely not like a mixed warband.

Ya DE and empire are all about breaking keeps. Redundancy makes your playstyle stronger. There's a lot more also I could get into on how they are ideal on breaking keeps. Thier damage type is probably something that dwarves and chaos have a hard time dealing with.

BAH of course. Thats why kotbs has aura's also to counter the chaos keep defense. duh. I feel dumb.

Look people started calling it cheese when like 8 BW's were wondering around. No it wasn't cheese its how the game was designed on purpose and their are natural counters. This game was suppose to be next level brutal.

This game is Straight up the King of PvP.

I suggest if you wanted to start doing this Level all 4 classes of the playstyle your wanting to be part of and start a racial guild. While your leveling all 4 classes try and recruit open minded players. Get people in the guild to level 2 or more classes of the same race so you have options in t4. Take any player willing to try and help them out. This stuff I'm talking about is Next level stuff.

But your right. Maybe this game isn't about racials groups. I mean you have to cleanse everything right? Everything is based on 6 mans right?

I'm not interested in people's opinions if they haven't tried this stuff or at the very least haven't tried to do m4 bombs. I have. Again racial groups gained 25% more morale then non racial groups. Racial warbands are robust and have unique tricks to them to deal with other people's playstyles even in current meta mixed grps.

Here's the real question. Moving forward are we going to start balancing the game for mixed groups like mythic was bandaid attempting? Or we going to bring back the racial morale booster tactic and bring back the racial synergy.

Oh just a quick note not racial related. I always brought Standards to my fights either rvr or Sc's. People spend a absolutely retarded amount of time trying just to get 5% of whatever stats on their characters. If you just bring a standard you get 3 of those stats. In a Warband setting you can bring 3 standards to compliment your playstyle. I'd build to my strengths on those standards. Its also kinda bragging rights that yeah I'm so comfortable that I can beat you that I'm bringing standards. In a game where gold basically means nothing at high level, why wouldn't you bring standards.

So organization and coordination Beats everything in this game. If I'm a DE/Empire guild leader and I have access to players in my DE/Empire guild. I can have players role several classes of the same race so we can pull some crazy crazy things off that are 100% viable.

Please say something if you agree with what I'm saying. I've spent a hell of a lot of time writing these posts and sharing my idea's. Is this stuff helpful to you guys? I'm able to explain why all the abilities are there with this mindset. Are you seeing the game in a different light now? Should I be explaining more? Do I have to explain more? Is this falling on deaf ears?

Again I'm looking for people with open minds and are willing to play greenskinz.

[footpatrol2]

Here's the thing about theorycrafting.

How do you think BW/Sorc bombs happened? Someone theorycrafted it. Then they tried it and found out it works and thought it was fun. Then they told someone else...

What am I doing...

[Sulorie]

Here's the thing about theorycrafting.

How do you think BW/Sorc bombs happened? Someone theorycrafted it. Then they tried it and found out it works and thought it was fun. Then they told someone else...

What am I doing...

No Sorc bombs in pure DE groups, they use mixed races to cover most weaknesses.

[roadkillrobin]

Sorcs have very few weaknesses in Bomb Spec tbh. Can easily cover that with a BG guard and DoK healers.

[Sulorie]

Sorcs have very few weaknesses in Bomb Spec tbh. Can easily cover that with a BG guard and DoK healers.

Double BG and DOK? You have no idea man.

[Gobtar]

Sorcs have very few weaknesses in Bomb Spec tbh. Can easily cover that with a BG guard and DoK healers.

Double BG and DOK? You have no idea man.

I seen DOK only Warbands work...