[Black Guard]2H Disparity between IB?

[Penril]

welp

always thought it buffed bg

****

It does here...shhhhh just don't tell anyone, I feel like a jerk now...damn.

This is why i asked if you had tested it . Not everything in RoR works the same as on live. Even if it should, the more reason to test it so we can let devs know in case it doesn't.

edit: what Noise said, except i was being a little more diplomatic haha.

[Tklees]

SnB BG>SnB IB? Serious question. Both run HD tactic, both get aoe snares I would assume, my exp on BG is very limited, BG punt>IB punt, 5sec kd vs 3, can't be detaunted so still good dps.

Thoughts?

[Luth]

Who was this dev? Because iirc the general mythic policy on questions about combat mechanics etc. was: "No comment."

[Gobtar]

Do you actually have _any_ proof besides the classic "I played a BG on live, and I know for a fact that on live..." which noone gives a f*ck about? Tooltip does not say 'except you' in its wording. Neither does the word "others" exclude yourself actually if you ask me. Its just another case of horrible wording we see with many skills form mythic. But I for example also 'played BG on live and say italways debuffed for me too' hurrdurr. What now?

What does the debuff say? That is my only supporting argument other than "oh look at all my anecdotal evidence". If it makes no mention in the debuff than it's a moot point, honestly I thought RoR's ruleset was like Live in this which is why i made such a hefty assertion, forgetting that a lot of this had to be reworked in.

I can appreciate that Mythic has a tendancy of poorly writing tool tips, if this was concise English, "other" used here would be exclusionary. Why, if it wasn't exclusionary it wouldn't even needed to be put there. "Making them 10% more likely to be critically hit for 5 seconds" vs "Making them 10% more likely to be critically hit by others for 5 seconds". See the difference? One implies a universal affect the other implies condition.
Either way, we can both agree that Mythic not good with words.

@Penril: Yeah, I see that, thanks for being diplomatic, I will be less inclined to spout tales of wasted hours that no one cares about, after this conversation. Just tell me what the debuff tooltip says will ya?

[TenTonHammer]

SnB BG>SnB IB? Serious question. Both run HD tactic, both get aoe snares I would assume, my exp on BG is very limited, BG punt>IB punt, 5sec kd vs 3, can't be detaunted so still good dps.

Thoughts?

no

IB earthshatter is a hard hitting ability on a good tree, bg can only get WoS if they are going def tard

BG and IBs punts are basically the same, as people say when you punt someone it dosnt matter which layer of the atmosphere they are sent to

IBs kd has half the cd to even things out a bit

IB has amazing group buffing potential with its plethora of buffs bg has a wp buff and a really shitty wanna be covenant of vitality so the class has to compensate with dps/offensive potential

[Gobtar]

SnB BG>SnB IB? Serious question. Both run HD tactic, both get aoe snares I would assume, my exp on BG is very limited, BG punt>IB punt, 5sec kd vs 3, can't be detaunted so still good dps.

Thoughts?

Depends, SnB IB has better damage whilst can keep it's AoE Snare, it can also keep it's 100% block which can do silly damage. BG has to choose if it wants to do effective burst damage or if it wants to be defensive...BG has to choose, IB gets both. IB is also much more difficult to kill whilst having all it's toys, the BG needs to dedicate a lot of resources due to not having an easy means of increasing block chance especially later on when opponents will have much greater stikethrough.

@Luth: honestly can't remember and no longer relevant.

[Tklees]

SnB BG>SnB IB? Serious question. Both run HD tactic, both get aoe snares I would assume, my exp on BG is very limited, BG punt>IB punt, 5sec kd vs 3, can't be detaunted so still good dps.

Thoughts?

no

IB earthshatter is a hard hitting ability on a good tree, bg can only get WoS if they are going def tard

BG and IBs punts are basically the same, as people say when you punt someone it dosnt matter which layer of the atmosphere they are sent to

IBs kd has half the cd to even things out a bit

IB has amazing group buffing potential with its plethora of buffs bg has a wp buff and a really shitty wanna be covenant of vitality so the class has to compensate with dps/offensive potential

Which IB buffs are for group? And a kd on a 10 sec kd vs a 20 sec CD doesn't really matter as there are usually immunities up in coordinating CC (kd dps, stagger heals). And I kinda disagree on punts, longer it takes to get back to guard range the more likely target dies. So just aoe snare then?

[Gobtar]

Which IB buffs are for group? And a kd on a 10 sec kd vs a 20 sec CD doesn't really matter as there are usually immunities up in coordinating CC (kd dps, stagger heals). And I kinda disagree on punts, longer it takes to get back to guard range the more likely target dies. So just aoe snare then?

The BGs KB is based off of hatred, you need full hatred to get a decent punt, IB is good to go once he has 20 grudge which is much more managable. The BG KD and punt being tied to the mechnic makes him much less reliable...IB is more consistent and is golden partically as soon as the fight starts.

[TenTonHammer]

By group buffs I ment ib has more buffs the are relevent to pretty much all members of the grp

While bgs punt can still be "better" it requires max resource to do so

Where as ib performs like that 100% of the time

[Penril]

@Penril: Yeah, I see that, thanks for being diplomatic, I will be less inclined to spout tales of wasted hours that no one cares about, after this conversation. Just tell me what the debuff tooltip says will ya?

The debuff tooltip can say many things, but only a proper test will let you know for sure. That's why this is still an Alpha and not a complete game yet. Just last week me and some guildies were testing a tactic that was supposed to stack with some skills. It didn't; we told a dev and i think it got fixed in the last patch. If we hadn't taken 15 minutes of our time to test it, we would have never found out (someone else would have eventually, ofc).

Just take it as friendly advice. Proper tests on one skill from one class in one day at RoR can sometimes tell you more than 5 years of experience with all 24 classes in WAR live.