(Mythic) origins of balance

[roadkillrobin]

@Karast
You're 100% correct, there's no functional point in running full racial groups without the renown racial tactics. Coz there are simply better synnergies when you don't. But i'm pretty sure that Mythic at one point durning the development wanted the best comp to be within the races. And thats why we still see traces of old synnergy. I'll give you a concrete example in a Greenskin groupset up and you'll see what i mean.

Black Orc skill: WAAAAGH!!! - Squig Herder Skill Indigestion - Choppa tactic Jagged Edge

Choppa skill: Chop Fasta - Squig Herder skill: Big Bouncing - DPS Shaman skill: Da WAAAgh is Comming

Black Orc skill: Follow' Me Lead - Squig Herder skill - Big Bouncing - Choppa skills: All Wrecka attacks.

Then there's all the morale tactis
Shaman Tactics : Ere We go again +Get Movin'! wich also have good synnergy with Chop fasta.
Black Orc tactic :Youz see me block dat
Squig Herders: Strength in Numbas

All feeding into Squig Herders and Choppas to drop Wind up Da Waaagh and Stomp da Yard
While Black Orcs using either drop Deafening Bellow! or Imaculate Defences

[footpatrol2]

I played I believe on US servers not sure. We made the dwarf group about 6 months to a year after the slayer release.

Back then mountain spirit had a 30 sec duration so we would cycle mountain spirit to keep it up at all times. We would cycle shatter limbs so if we were in close combat it would be up at all times. Obviously challenge would be cycled. We'd have tough grimnir Runepriests with concussive runes tactic so he didn't need a dedicated guard and could get by on a floated guard. We'd use armored plating from the engie if we were taking too much damage. We'd use vengence IB with powered itchings if we were taking to much damage. Stone IB would buff everyone's toughness since we were all stacked on top of each other with extra shielding tactic. Extra ammo/rune of fury/ancestor's blessing/restorative burst tactic/told ya so tactic was our AP battery. Since everyone is stacked on each other extra ammo is hitting most. Grenadier engie obviously takes trench fighting. There are tons more and I'm not going to list all of it here. The racial dwarf grp does best fighting up close and stacked on top of each other.

I know their are optimal mixed group combo's. I've played in them and created mixed grp also. All i'm saying is that Racial groups could compete. Sure there are bad match ups. But there are bad match ups vs any premade. Sometimes we'd win Sometimes we'd lose but it was always fun.

[footpatrol2]

racial groups could compete with run of the mill premades. Maybe not super optimal min/max premades. But they could compete.

But you get the fun of seeing a group of dwarves outlast horrendous damage. Or using armored plating when everyone is stacked on top of each other looks bad ass and your using it for what it looks like. Or greenskins using a Pacman grp with snares everywhere. Or high elves using a WW grp that drops spirit resists to 0 and have a dps AM and a WL spam loin's fury which is his hardest hitting ability on 0 spirit resist. Or chaos using a rift/mist grp with tendicales pulling players into the death trap.

The Spec's and abilities make sense in racial groups. The spec and abilites seem stupid and broken outside of racial groups. Hence the player fustration and confusion on balance.

[footpatrol2]

The racial groups make the game a lot more interesting because the playstyle is so so different.

I've done countless bomb groups and melee trains. Sure there fun. This is fun also. Maybe I only played against baddies I dunno.

[Tiggo]

i think your premade wb was strong, cause it was a premade wb with coordination, not much to do with racial stuff. (after the racial abilities got sacked that is).

[footpatrol2]

A lot of the racial abilities are still there. There are remains of it everywhere.

[roadkillrobin]

Dwarf is probobly the strongest race to make a wb with. They have really solid tanks, healers and melee dps.The weak point is the engineer. wich isn't all that weak.
Could argue that Empire is very solid aswell if you skip the Witch Hunter.

[Tiggo]

Dwarf is probobly the strongest race to make a wb with. They have really solid tanks, healers and melee dps.The weak point is the engineer. wich isn't all that weak.
Could argue that Empire is very solid aswell if you skip the Witch Hunter.

it all boiles down to that high elves are useless pussies, isnt it?

[Idrinth]

I'm wondering if the client would be able to deal with the return of racial tactics at all, if yes, I'd love to see them back - and have all the people-specific tactics adjusted.

Would propose 3 options regarding tactics scaling with party member races:
- more moral
- more parry/disrupt/evade
- more ap-regen

[topaz85]

Sorry for OT but I've kind stumbled over this topic and I have no rights to PM which I would've IF I could.
Mainly im Lurking around and looking at how well this private server is developing. My beloved first and last MMO being brought back and it seems many good things are yet to come to it.
But I digress.

Karast by typing Bloodstone Clan and mentioning Karak Norn and Burlock... that kind tickled that old spot back when I've started playing WAR.
Did you knew any Dwarfs from Blackstone Brotherhood? mainly pure Dwarf players with heavy RP focus, although enough open mind to allow few elves in to the group (including my lousy attempt at DPSing with WL - Bellsulian)
If you did knew, man tell me what are those guys up to bcs that was a hilarious bunch to hang out with and enjoy doing stuff around in WAR...well any game in fact. AND I've lost any and all contact with 'em.

That's my piece. Sorry for derailing a 'lil bit. But that part of WAR history always gives me huge nostalgia spikes.