2H Tanks: 9001th thread edition

[GodlessCrom]

Except that the problem with Chosen is that you can do the Crippling Strikes "2H" build with a SnB and Blastwave without losing much potency and gaining way more survivability.

PArtially solvable by just juggling the tactics in the tree, innit? Swap Oppressing Blows with Crippling Strikes and now CS is basically 2her only due to how far up it is in Dread. A bit of an indirect nerf to SnB, but it was already good enough anyways.

[Dreadspectre]

Blastwave has 20 sec CD. You really gonna slot CS for an abillty that procs unrelibly every 20 sec??
No you slot it for Rending Blade coz 1: It's undefendble 2: it has short CD making it relieble.

Blastwave is 15 sec and 360 whereas Rending is 5 seconds with only a cone in the front.

Plus you can pick up Quake for another 360 chance to proc Crippling from Discord tree.

I didn't say you were on par with the 2H version, but you could function in the same capacity without losing that much potency and staying a whole lot tougher.

[th3gatekeeper]

^ But then you do not have 15% crit which is what procs that in the first place. But yeah, pick up Blast + Quake for 2 chances to proc this with 15% less crit and sure you can go SnB....

Yes you can stay tougher, but also isnt part of this thread discussing that the viability of 2H needs to increase?

For instance, if you paired this example with my suggestion about making F.O. 2H only, no longer decreases armor, instead increases damage say 20%.

Now you can go SnB and be a "whole lot tougher" but also lose on 15% crit AND 20% potential damage now... So its a much bigger toss up than before....

[Jaycub]

I don't like the idea of making a tactic virtually mandatory for 2h tanks (FO), that is just taking up a tactic slot that could be used for utlity or something else. Why not just make 2H tanks work independent of having to run a tactic?

[Dreadspectre]

^ But then you do not have 15% crit which is what procs that in the first place. But yeah, pick up Blast + Quake for 2 chances to proc this with 15% less crit and sure you can go SnB....

Yes you can stay tougher, but also isnt part of this thread discussing that the viability of 2H needs to increase?

For instance, if you paired this example with my suggestion about making F.O. 2H only, no longer decreases armor, instead increases damage say 20%.

Now you can go SnB and be a "whole lot tougher" but also lose on 15% crit AND 20% potential damage now... So its a much bigger toss up than before....

It is, I was just pointing out that the decrease in survivability(which is a lot, plus in Chosen case you can't take Destined for Victory when it comes) isn't necessarily made up for by the 2H advantages, even for Chosen.

I too had several suggestions for FO in this thread for a GW only approach.

I also think that GW's should change Taunt to be 50% increase in damage instead of the bas 30% you'd get without a GW.

Little things like that, tied to the class mechanics, seem like the best way to increase 2H tanks without having them step on MDPS toes.

I don't like the idea of making a tactic virtually mandatory for 2h tanks (FO), that is just taking up a tactic slot that could be used for utlity or something else. Why not just make 2H tanks work independent of having to run a tactic?

I feel like we have to though, I mean that's how they do it for the Healer classes for DPS. You have to slot Divine Fury or else there's just no point. You have to change the core of the class to something it necessarily wasn't designed for, we don't have stances in the game for these classes so really the tactics are our "stances".

[GodlessCrom]

Tweaking Focused Offense feels like a good place to start, since it buffs all 2h tank specs rather than just one or two. Also helps remove the most useless tactic in the game, since that's where it's at right now. Perhaps not make it mandatory, but make it a viable choice. Then again, certain tactics are basically mandatory, aren't they? See the aforementioned Destined for Victory (just make it proc off Parry if you're using a 2h, problem solved >.>): a tactic so good, basically makes SnB Chosen so much more viable than 2h Chosen that even though 2h Chosen fulfills the same niche at 40 as it did at 35, that niche is now completely overshadowed by 200 Morale every 3 seconds.

Also, isn't calling Quake a chance at proccing CS a bit of a red herring? Yeah, technically it's true, but you generally (I hope) don't use Quake as method of proccing CS, whereas with Rending Blade and Blast Wave, that's generally their purpose.

[Jaycub]

Spoiler:

An ability is designed so poorly that people would rather have that ability NOT apply it's CC because it's seen as nothing but a hindrance or free immunity for the other team, but could be useful if it only did damage

sadboys

[th3gatekeeper]

I don't like the idea of making a tactic virtually mandatory for 2h tanks (FO), that is just taking up a tactic slot that could be used for utlity or something else. Why not just make 2H tanks work independent of having to run a tactic?

While I do sympathize with this, how many other classes have mandatory tactics... Like a "DPS AM" who isnt going to slot the 25% increase is damage? Its basically mandatory for the spec... As Dread said below as well...

I feel like we have to though, I mean that's how they do it for the Healer classes for DPS. You have to slot Divine Fury or else there's just no point. You have to change the core of the class to something it necessarily wasn't designed for, we don't have stances in the game for these classes so really the tactics are our "stances".

Agreed.

It is, I was just pointing out that the decrease in survivability(which is a lot, plus in Chosen case you can't take Destined for Victory when it comes) isn't necessarily made up for by the 2H advantages, even for Chosen.

I too had several suggestions for FO in this thread for a GW only approach.

I also think that GW's should change Taunt to be 50% increase in damage instead of the bas 30% you'd get without a GW.

Little things like that, tied to the class mechanics, seem like the best way to increase 2H tanks without having them step on MDPS toes.

See I would almost RATHER have something like 5 stacks of 30% damage on taunt over 3 stacks instead of 3 stacks @ 50%. I do agree that this would be another viable alternative in beefing up damage, I just dont know how "polished" it would be to have different taunt %s based on what weapon you have?

I could see that being a SOLID tactic that tanks could have though: "Increases damage bonus of taunt by 20% and the number of stacks by 2, requires a GW"

[Jaycub]

Just because another archetype has a similar tactic doesn't excuse it, both are equally bad in terms of design and should be changed or that those specs should be viable without having to use a purposely over powered tactic (shitty bandaid fix) for that spec to work.

[TenTonHammer]

^ But then you do not have 15% crit which is what procs that in the first place. But yeah, pick up Blast + Quake for 2 chances to proc this with 15% less crit and sure you can go SnB....


.

Except 15% percent crit chance merely helps inc the chance to proc but it is not necessary

most people have a some where between 10-20% chance to be crit based on iniative then you can get crit chance with gear , set bonouses and what not and then you can slap a bo on your target and steal inioative from them to inc their chance to be crit significantly and then you dont even need oppressing blows