[Black Orc] Talk bout da builds ere.

[Penril]

Honestly, for bomb BO i would go AoE snare and as much Brawler as possible for Init debuff. Corp debuff? Sorcs bomb comes from Infernal Wave spam (thanks to Chop Fasta) which is Spirit anyway.

Sorcs can debuff Initive by emself, they don't need someone to do it for em.
Also the Chop, Fasa + Infernal Wave spam gets super countered by a Slayer using SL.

Sorcs can't debuff Init as much as a full Brawler BO. Not to mention Black Horror only debuffs anyone 20ft away from your target and has a 3 sec CD. If you want to Init debuff a lot of people quickly, BO>Sorc (spam AoE snare and get Biggest procs). Specially once Chop Fasta! is up and the sorc will be spamming IW (and wont want to waste 3 secs casting BH on new targets).

Use Lengthening Shadows tactic and your Sorc won't have to worry about Shatter Limbs. Also, cleanse. I don't think i have ever been hit with Shatter Limbs when bombing on my sorc.

[TenTonHammer]

Magus + Sorc feel and synergize better with spirit debuffs imho than choppa + sorc whose cd reduction has a 2m cooldown and whose 20s duration cannot be capatilzed on since as far as i have ever seen you do not need to bomb a target for 20s

[Penril]

Magus + Sorc feel and synergize better with spirit debuffs imho than choppa + sorc whose cd reduction has a 2m cooldown and whose 20s duration cannot be capatilzed on since as far as i have ever seen you do not need to bomb a target for 20s

Who said anything about bombing the same targets during 20 secs?

In keep defenses with AAO and a lot of enemies, you will definitely want more than 20 secs. However 20 is usually enough to wipe them. IW can be cast while moving, so when you kill some targets you can move forward and continue to spam it. Then you retreat to your keep and by the time the enemies come back, Chop Fasta will be ready (or almost ready).

Choppa can do pretty decent AoE damage as well in that spec. And Get to da Choppa! is awesome when you are pushing them out of your keep.

We only use Magus for Dissolving Mist or Rift (can't get both unfortunately). Chosen takes care of resist debuffs.

I have done this a LOT of times in T3 RoR. Works like a charm. Then again, as i pointed out, it really shines in keep defenses with AAO (or closed BOs like Tavern, Brewery, Tower). Going bomb when you don't have AAO (or your realm is zerging) is kinda silly imho.

[roadkillrobin]

Honestly, for bomb BO i would go AoE snare and as much Brawler as possible for Init debuff. Corp debuff? Sorcs bomb comes from Infernal Wave spam (thanks to Chop Fasta) which is Spirit anyway.

Sorcs can debuff Initive by emself, they don't need someone to do it for em.
Also the Chop, Fasa + Infernal Wave spam gets super countered by a Slayer using SL.

Sorcs can't debuff Init as much as a full Brawler BO. Not to mention Black Horror only debuffs anyone 20ft away from your target and has a 3 sec CD. If you want to Init debuff a lot of people quickly, BO>Sorc (spam AoE snare and get Biggest procs). Specially once Chop Fasta! is up and the sorc will be spamming IW (and wont want to waste 3 secs casting BH on new targets).

Use Lengthening Shadows tactic and your Sorc won't have to worry about Shatter Limbs. Also, cleanse. I don't think i have ever been hit with Shatter Limbs when bombing on my sorc.

The problem with Da Biggest is a bit that it's kinda unrelible on who it hits. and once you have the buff it can't trigger again. The range is also not much bigger then Black Horror. Wich btw you should run Close Quater if you run and use it when you have Dev proc up and it casts in .5 secs

There's also a very legitmiate reason to run Da Greenest atm, armor vallues are at a all time low, The extra armor wich are stronger then pots atm really helos against those Slayers

[TenTonHammer]

why not just run we iz bigger then

[Penril]

Again, why run Close Quarters if:

a) Infernal Wave is instant
b) Disastrous Cascade is instant
c) Shadow Knifes is instant
d) Ice Spikes is instant
e) Pit of Shades is instant
f) Surging Pain is instant

Unless you are "bombing" with Shattered Shadows?

You need Neverending Agony if you want to spam IW. You need Lengthening Shadows for more range (hitting more enemies as well). That leaves you one tactic slot which can be used for Endless Knowledge or Infernal Gift, which are more useful for this set up imho.

You suggest waiting for M2, using CQ, having the sorc run up to the enemies, use BH to debuff a few of them in 0.5 secs, then use your AoE spells. No wonder you get hit with Shatter Limbs. I suggest letting a Brawler BO spam his AoE snare (getting lots of stat steal procs) while a Choppa uses CF and you spam IW 80ft away from your enemies.

BO's can have good enough armor by themselves so there is no need for Da Greenest!, specially if a Zealot/Shaman/Chosen are buffing his resists. Since Sorc's will be 70-80ft behind him, they really don't need that much armor (just gotta keep an eye on SWs). So the BO can safely run Da Biggest!.

[roadkillrobin]

Again, why run Close Quarters if:

a) Infernal Wave is instant
b) Disastrous Cascade is instant
c) Shadow Knifes is instant
d) Ice Spikes is instant
e) Pit of Shades is instant
f) Surging Pain is instant

Unless you are "bombing" with Shattered Shadows?

You need Neverending Agony if you want to spam IW. You need Lengthening Shadows for more range (hitting more enemies as well). That leaves you one tactic slot which can be used for Endless Knowledge or Infernal Gift, which are more useful for this set up imho.

You suggest waiting for M2, using CQ, having the sorc run up to the enemies, use BH to debuff a few of them in 0.5 secs, then use your AoE spells. No wonder you get hit with Shatter Limbs. I suggest letting a Brawler BO spam his AoE snare (getting lots of stat steal procs) while a Choppa uses CF and you spam IW 80ft away from your enemies.

BO's can have good enough armor by themselves so there is no need for Da Greenest!, specially if a Zealot/Shaman/Chosen are buffing his resists. Since Sorc's will be 70-80ft behind him, they really don't need that much armor (just gotta keep an eye on SWs). So the BO can safely run Da Biggest!.

No i don't run BH on my sorc either.
But i know some who does. It's 2 different builds. The increased radius on IW is a wasted tactic imo. The target cap is 9 anyway and it's allready pretty big. You have 1 tactic slot to experiment with. I know some who runs Infernal Gift, some run CQ, some Peircing Shadaows, some Devour Energy. If I run with a Choppa or Magus i run IG if i run with another sorc I use PS.
The armor proc from Da Greenest is actually really great atm, have you seen how low armor mitigration people have? Tanks are down to 60% without pots. That around were melee dps usually are. An extra 400 if people using pots is 10% dmg reduction. Those who arn't using pots it's more then 20%.

[Penril]

No i don't run BH on my sorc either.
But i know some who does. It's 2 different builds. The increased radius on IW is a wasted tactic imo. The target cap is 9 anyway and it's allready pretty big. You have 1 tactic slot to experiment with. I know some who runs Infernal Gift, some run CQ, some Peircing Shadaows, some Devour Energy. If I run with a Choppa or Magus i run IG if i run with another sorc I use PS.
The armor proc from Da Greenest is actually really great atm, have you seen how low armor mitigration people have? Tanks are down to 60% without pots. That around were melee dps usually are. An extra 400 if people using pots is 10% dmg reduction. Those who arn't using pots it's more then 20%.

Yes, and one works better than the other one. People should test them both and decide for themselves.

Anyway we were discussing WAAAGH, and i already pointed out the reasons why i think it is "meh" for bombing. Can be good for assisting a Witchbrew WE though (but then you would need to test if the WE would benefit more from a full Brawler Initiative debuff). Maybe, since a WB WE can't currently spec Increased Pain anyway. Also, WAAAGH stacks with Zealot's corp debuffs.

TL;DR: WAAAGH is meh for bombing, and good for assisting one class in one specific spec (imho).

Tests, tests...

[roadkillrobin]

No i don't run BH on my sorc either.
But i know some who does. It's 2 different builds. The increased radius on IW is a wasted tactic imo. The target cap is 9 anyway and it's allready pretty big. You have 1 tactic slot to experiment with. I know some who runs Infernal Gift, some run CQ, some Peircing Shadaows, some Devour Energy. If I run with a Choppa or Magus i run IG if i run with another sorc I use PS.
The armor proc from Da Greenest is actually really great atm, have you seen how low armor mitigration people have? Tanks are down to 60% without pots. That around were melee dps usually are. An extra 400 if people using pots is 10% dmg reduction. Those who arn't using pots it's more then 20%.

Yes, and one works better than the other one. People should test them both and decide for themselves.

Anyway we were discussing WAAAGH, and i already pointed out the reasons why i think it is "meh" for bombing. Can be good for assisting a Witchbrew WE though (but then you would need to test if the WE would benefit more from a full Brawler Initiative debuff). Maybe, since a WB WE can't currently spec Increased Pain anyway. Also, WAAAGH stacks with Zealot's corp debuffs.

TL;DR: WAAAGH is meh for bombing, and good for assisting one class in one specific spec (imho).

Tests, tests...

Actually saying one works better then the other one is a complete subjective opinion, arn't you supose to be a ballance moderator? It might work better for you.
And you're also missing a vital point of WAAAGH. It does corp dmg, it hits pretty hard on all targets that it hits due to it debuffs itself, and ignores armor. I think you are looking at this a bit narrow, dps isn't the only class that can do or should do dmg. You kill stuff with AoE by stacking it. And this is just another tick of dmg wich also helps spells like Ice Spikes hit's a bit harder.

[Penril]

I said one works better than the other. I didnt mention which one. And i made a point that people should test both and decide for themselves.

Also, a few points:

1) Being a balance mod only means i will help enforce the rules of the balance forums. Nothing more, nothing less.
2) I will still be posting in several threads giving my opinion. Being a balance mod does not mean i am suddenly not allowed to post in any threads like i always have. If people don't like it, too bad for them.