[Archmage] Funnel Essence/Healing Energy

[Sigimund]

Have you used it much since the change, Topo?

[roadkillrobin]

if you want to spam you couldn't stay backline as a dok/wp you still need to rec with the aoe attacks.

with the def chalice of t4 influence instead sov but full sov armor i still needed to rec, i just stop use the ap rec which is totaly nice since you cannot stay channeling 3 sec...
The same goes for am/Sm that ap proc + ap tactic + ap drain made their classes a lot more viable.

The difference is
1: The Ap Drains take about 3 sec's before they start regen any ap. The debuff can be cleanse before you get your first chunk of AP while WP/DoK's version have a instant effect and can't be cleansed.
2: RF/SE regen while casting. So with this proc you gained RF/SE from both gear and proc even when casting while AM/Shamans only gains AP from the proc.
3: RF/SE can't be drained like AP.
4: After a DoK/WP cast Smite they got a heal of after GCD+1sec secs. While AM/Shaman have to wait for GCD+2.5sec cast. Thats along time between heals. So again what can these 2 classes do that WP/DoK can't do better???

[gungnir08]

Have you used it much since the change, Topo?

Yeah, I have, and it's great. At level 28, I've got Balanced Mending and Isha's Encouragement slotted, and the mobility they afford me is just phenomenal. Once I'm level 30, I'll add Wild Healing to the mix and it'll be even better.

Of course, AP management can be a pain if there aren't any good targets around to drain, but that's the cost of doing business.

[Sigimund]

I would not have thought of that tactic combination. Now I really want to try it. Thank you.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

if you want to spam you couldn't stay backline as a dok/wp you still need to rec with the aoe attacks.

with the def chalice of t4 influence instead sov but full sov armor i still needed to rec, i just stop use the ap rec which is totaly nice since you cannot stay channeling 3 sec...
The same goes for am/Sm that ap proc + ap tactic + ap drain made their classes a lot more viable.

The difference is
1: The Ap Drains take about 3 sec's before they start regen any ap. The debuff can be cleanse before you get your first chunk of AP while WP/DoK's version have a instant effect and can't be cleansed.
2: RF/SE regen while casting. So with this proc you gained RF/SE from both gear and proc even when casting while AM/Shamans only gains AP from the proc.
3: RF/SE can't be drained like AP.
4: After a DoK/WP cast Smite they got a heal of after GCD+1sec secs. While AM/Shaman have to wait for GCD+2.5sec cast. Thats along time between heals. So again what can these 2 classes do that WP/DoK can't do better???

1-dont see a problem with half of the poitn 1, you have longer cast time and you can use it before start cast which end in the same way as dok /wp use it after casted heals, the problem as you said it's that it's cleanseable, but dok/wp do not remove ap from their target which sh/am does insteas.

2-dok/wp pool is 250 with a aoe heal that cost 60 point ( like 65 of your ap) but the base value is half of yours.
Problem lays in crits which make them better the cost in meccanic is the same. I run so fast out of essence daily with my dok when i need to spam that i just want my sov bonus back.

3- true. imo every ap drain should also drain dpl/wp meccanic point or they should have other stuff doing that but they still need ap to rec maybe the problem it's dok/wp have too large ap pool since they alsop have a second pool for use skills

4-never say nothing about this i just talk about ap regen.

[Nameless]

AM/Shamans ap leeches are debuffs. They do the job of debuffing and crippling your enemy pretty good. But both spells are not reliable ap managment tools. They can help but at same time they may do the situation even worse.

Ap leeches cost 50 AP while you get back at 3th second 60 which is 10 more than the initial investment. So after the 6th second you got some real benefit which is optional since the ap leech can be:
cleansed;
your target could be out of AP to leech from which is pretty common;
the debuffed enemy could die so no ap to leech from;
wont even talk about disrupt, pretty common scenario at which you lose 50 AP.

Ap leeches are one of the best debuffs and can block your enemy BUT are not ap managment that you can rely and should not be shown as some super, duper ap refill tool.

[gungnir08]

AM/Shamans ap leeches are debuffs. They do the job of debuffing and crippling your enemy pretty good. But both spells are not reliable ap managment tools. They can help but at same time they may do the situation even worse.

Ap leeches cost 50 AP while you get back at 3th second 60 which is 10 more than the initial investment. So after the 6th second you got some real benefit which is optional since the ap leech can be:
cleansed;
your target could be out of AP to leech from which is pretty common;
the debuffed enemy could die so no ap to leech from;
wont even talk about disrupt, pretty common scenario at which you lose 50 AP.

Ap leeches are one of the best debuffs and can block your enemy BUT are not ap managment that you can rely and should not be shown as some super, duper ap refill tool.

You left off the possibility that your AP drain can be disrupted and blocked, as well.

Yeah, building with the intent of using the AM/Shaman's AP drain to keep your AP bar full isn't ideal, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you're making it out to be, either. It just depends on whether you're using your AP drain as an AP denial tool, or as an AP management tool.

This distinction can manifest itself in target selection, for example. As an AM, if I'm trying to deny AP to an enemy, I would spam it on a high-priority target such as a particularly threatening DPS, or a healer that is singlehandedly propping his team up, etc. As an AP management tool, though, I'd be using it on pets, turrets, and targets that are unlikely to disrupt it outright, like a RDPS or MDPS. Obviously, both have their benefits, and regardless of spec, a flexible AM/Shaman should be able to alternate between the two methods of target selection as the situation demands one or the other.

This topic makes me nostalgic for the AM's old AP drain, though. There was a time when Drain Magic was an instant, undefendable nuke which cost 25 AP and instantly drained 90 AP from your target. That was back when we had a second Spirit resist debuff in Feel the Winds, too. Good times.