[WITCH ELF] amelioration

[Lileldys]

completely wrong. it just doesn't fit into the frontloaded burst rotation shebali teached you guys on youtube - thus you underestimate it.
WP is always worth the GCD and fits perfect into the WE's rotation. it's a great ability and almost always worth the gcd

My senses told me, shebali would made much more Damage Per 1-3 Seconds using AW instead of dot.

Shebali could get away with playing the lol burst mode cause of the insane amount of melee damage bonus from 2pc invader, 3pc warlord, 3 glyphs and lotd jewel+cloak. Fully decked out WE's like Shebali would have 300+ melee damage bonus, but try running that in a group an expect to survive. That was also pre-sovereign update? So I doubt you'll see that kinda damage unless against lowbies...

[lilsabin]

I agree with you, Jacub. In groupplay people prefer marauder/choppa/sorc for destru and slayer/bw/wl for order as dd before we/wh. Slayer/marauder/ have charge every 30 sec, wl has insta pounce but we/wh very often get knocked out of stealth. As a we/wh you have barely a chance to reach the range dds/healers because they run away as soon they see your guard tank running with you. Therefore i change my suggestions to make stealth available more often, give a 25% charge either to stealth or to flee footed/sigill of sigmar. +35% to the tactic swift pursuit. Make kisses/bullets not knocking you out of stealth and without gcd. This are just my personal suggestions no must -changes.

amen , at least some one who is understanding

[dirnsterer]

3.
I do not like the idea removing the conditional from dagger-throw with FP.
Though in its current form Dagger-Throw is useless because every good enemy use sideward steps, sometimes the snaredebuff appears but in most cases not. Having a snare ready only every 50 secs and sacrifice an important damagebuff is not much better than before in my opinion. I would suggest a +25% run speed for flee footed/sigill of sigmar or a snare on all openers instead.
On paper stealth as a gap closer is a nice idea, but in group the enemy rdps and healers flee as soon they see your guardtank running next to you.
Solo they abuse the minimap bug or see you go in disguise then they run away too. Its hard to close up to your groupmates in sc which have charge and its impossible to close up to fleeing enemies.
In soloplay as soon as the enemy jumps magically out of meleerange, you need to wait 30 more secs for the next stealth to be ready. This means death for the WE/WH. Even if youre running away, waiting for the next stealth, the most rdps are following you within 100ft and kite you down. Maybe this gets better with Agile Escape/Declare Anathema in T4.

But I thought this suggestion meant that FP would work as it is but just make the dagger throw work from any direction. While keeping it the same nevertheless. Other option would be to make dagger-throw snare when hitting side and back so the "Lol, I just strafe away and pew pew." would be less so ridicilous.

[Tklees]

3.
I do not like the idea removing the conditional from dagger-throw with FP.
Though in its current form Dagger-Throw is useless because every good enemy use sideward steps, sometimes the snaredebuff appears but in most cases not. Having a snare ready only every 50 secs and sacrifice an important damagebuff is not much better than before in my opinion. I would suggest a +25% run speed for flee footed/sigill of sigmar or a snare on all openers instead.
On paper stealth as a gap closer is a nice idea, but in group the enemy rdps and healers flee as soon they see your guardtank running next to you.
Solo they abuse the minimap bug or see you go in disguise then they run away too. Its hard to close up to your groupmates in sc which have charge and its impossible to close up to fleeing enemies.
In soloplay as soon as the enemy jumps magically out of meleerange, you need to wait 30 more secs for the next stealth to be ready. This means death for the WE/WH. Even if youre running away, waiting for the next stealth, the most rdps are following you within 100ft and kite you down. Maybe this gets better with Agile Escape/Declare Anathema in T4.

But I thought this suggestion meant that FP would work as it is but just make the dagger throw work from any direction. While keeping it the same nevertheless. Other option would be to make dagger-throw snare when hitting side and back so the "Lol, I just strafe away and pew pew." would be less so ridicilous.

if it snared from Side as well it would be guaranteed unless they were backing up from you. Can't make it an auto snare IMO. But like I said, making it a choice when opening on a target to save FP to snare or use it for more front end damage would do a good bit to help the lack of charge.

Just had an idea any thoughts on the use of Root break in stealth?

[lilsabin]

Getting this Thread back on track. So far we have the following suggestions:
1. Make Bullets/Kisses swap-able in stealth- I think this is a very solid idea.
2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused
3. Return the conditional removal from FP to Snap shot and Dagger throw- again this would be nice as it would make WE/WH have to decide on popping it for the KD or for the snare once someone got up

Any thoughts on any of these ideas?

everything thats a buff should be usable in stealth without making u pop out off it , stealth should only breake when u engage in combat

[lilsabin]

Getting this Thread back on track. So far we have the following suggestions:
1. Make Bullets/Kisses swap-able in stealth- I think this is a very solid idea.
2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused
3. Return the conditional removal from FP to Snap shot and Dagger throw- again this would be nice as it would make WE/WH have to decide on popping it for the KD or for the snare once someone got up

Any thoughts on any of these ideas?

2.make stealth time longer , so we have time to prepare our attacks , i feel stressed everytime i stealth because , i am affraid the 30 secs will be up before i can choose/get on the right target AND PLZ , REMOVE THE AP CONSUMPTION

[lilsabin]

@Nemoel and Atropik: please give a reason behind it when you are opposing one of the ideas. An example would be:

I do not think the cool down needs to be reduced due to it being a part of the "burst" that comes up for WH/WE every minute and I see that it could be abused in a way that AP costs would need to be looked at due to high uptime, 10 seconds of every 30 (33%) at the high end potential of the buff out of stealth that reduces AP costs by 50%

sorry i was on my mobile phone when i wrote my suggestions.^^


1. I like the idea about switching bullets/poison within stealth. I think here the most people will agree.

2. WE/WH have a great burst because they are the weakest mdps class in the game. Some tanks do not even like to guard WE/WH ^^ (even they use one of the best detaunts in the game). To get the full burst you urgently need the opener and stealth, wich is only available every 30 secs after stealth and addidional you can get easily knocked out of stealth. This is why people prefer tankier mdps classes for groups with good dps. Other classes even do not need an opener to get their full dps. Like I said before: having your full dps only every 30 secs (if you have luck and not get knocked out of stealth), while other classes have their rota ready again in much shorter time is one of the reasons why i suggest do have a shorter cd for stealth. (15 sec after get out from stealth or a direct cooldown as soon as you become invicible)



3.
I do not like the idea removing the conditional from dagger-throw with FP.
Though in its current form Dagger-Throw is useless because every good enemy use sideward steps, sometimes the snaredebuff appears but in most cases not. Having a snare ready only every 50 secs and sacrifice an important damagebuff is not much better than before in my opinion. I would suggest a +25% run speed for flee footed/sigill of sigmar or a snare on all openers instead.
On paper stealth as a gap closer is a nice idea, but in group the enemy rdps and healers flee as soon they see your guardtank running next to you.
Solo they abuse the minimap bug or see you go in disguise then they run away too. Its hard to close up to your groupmates in sc which have charge and its impossible to close up to fleeing enemies.
In soloplay as soon as the enemy jumps magically out of meleerange, you need to wait 30 more secs for the next stealth to be ready. This means death for the WE/WH. Even if youre running away, waiting for the next stealth, the most rdps are following you within 100ft and kite you down. Maybe this gets better with Agile Escape/Declare Anathema in T4.

3.thats why we need to be able to stealth for a longer time , because as u say , as soon as the enemy see u disapear , they ll be on their guard or just run away (they know in 30 secs you will reappear , lol )

[Atropik]

you can read and understand tooltips right? it lasts for 1 minute but to spend 6 stacks you need 3 seconds. fits into our description of "burst", huh?

And what we are talking about? Ahhh, i remember, yes WB provides more delayed damage then nothing, you won.

so you're claiming bruteforce makes up for 33,3% dmg?

When you are lvl 10 - 104 str would make even 77,7% dmg, i guess.

And here comes the legendary l2p WE advantage

And here comes tons of l2p issues, as always.

wow, read my post again ... i said it DOESN'T(!) fit into the cool kids shebali spec. that again means he was not using it.

1:0

[Nemoel]

@Nemoel and Atropik: please give a reason behind it when you are opposing one of the ideas. An example would be:

I do not think the cool down needs to be reduced due to it being a part of the "burst" that comes up for WH/WE every minute and I see that it could be abused in a way that AP costs would need to be looked at due to high uptime, 10 seconds of every 30 (33%) at the high end potential of the buff out of stealth that reduces AP costs by 50%

sorry i was on my mobile phone when i wrote my suggestions.^^


1. I like the idea about switching bullets/poison within stealth. I think here the most people will agree.

2. WE/WH have a great burst because they are the weakest mdps class in the game. Some tanks do not even like to guard WE/WH ^^ (even they use one of the best detaunts in the game). To get the full burst you urgently need the opener and stealth, wich is only available every 30 secs after stealth and addidional you can get easily knocked out of stealth. This is why people prefer tankier mdps classes for groups with good dps. Other classes even do not need an opener to get their full dps. Like I said before: having your full dps only every 30 secs (if you have luck and not get knocked out of stealth), while other classes have their rota ready again in much shorter time is one of the reasons why i suggest do have a shorter cd for stealth. (15 sec after get out from stealth or a direct cooldown as soon as you become invicible)



3.
I do not like the idea removing the conditional from dagger-throw with FP.
Though in its current form Dagger-Throw is useless because every good enemy use sideward steps, sometimes the snaredebuff appears but in most cases not. Having a snare ready only every 50 secs and sacrifice an important damagebuff is not much better than before in my opinion. I would suggest a +25% run speed for flee footed/sigill of sigmar or a snare on all openers instead.
On paper stealth as a gap closer is a nice idea, but in group the enemy rdps and healers flee as soon they see your guardtank running next to you.
Solo they abuse the minimap bug or see you go in disguise then they run away too. Its hard to close up to your groupmates in sc which have charge and its impossible to close up to fleeing enemies.
In soloplay as soon as the enemy jumps magically out of meleerange, you need to wait 30 more secs for the next stealth to be ready. This means death for the WE/WH. Even if youre running away, waiting for the next stealth, the most rdps are following you within 100ft and kite you down. Maybe this gets better with Agile Escape/Declare Anathema in T4.

3.thats why we need to be able to stealth for a longer time , because as u say , as soon as the enemy see u disapear , they ll be on their guard or just run away (they know in 30 secs you will reappear , lol )

A 1 minute stealth with 30 sec cooldown would be ok but i would rather prefer a movement increase when in stealth to close up to the enemies.

When me and my brother play our 2 WE, we always see targets which would be in range, but then they run away and we can not close up then stealth runs out ^^


EDIT: changed some gramatical erros, sorry my english is not as good as my german ^^

[Tklees]

Getting this Thread back on track. So far we have the following suggestions:
1. Make Bullets/Kisses swap-able in stealth- I think this is a very solid idea.
2. Make Stealth time shorter in trade for a reduced CD- again i like this but could see it getting abused
3. Return the conditional removal from FP to Snap shot and Dagger throw- again this would be nice as it would make WE/WH have to decide on popping it for the KD or for the snare once someone got up

Any thoughts on any of these ideas?

2.make stealth time longer , so we have time to prepare our attacks , i feel stressed everytime i stealth because , i am affraid the 30 secs will be up before i can choose/get on the right target AND PLZ , REMOVE THE AP CONSUMPTION

Can't agree with you. 30 seconds is more than enough time to make a target choice. I am for changes that make sense and DO NOT lower the skill cap of the class. Giving people more time to make a choice does that.