[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[Azarael]

What I seem to be struggling to get through is that it is not a failure of game design for a strategy which amounts to "train the melee WP" to fail outright. The enemy team is putting a healer on the front line. If it dies just because you decided to focus it first, the concept is never going to work.

The idea that Grace WP can be neutralized for a period by other factors such as snare+punt should be the key here. Damage should not be the only counter to everything. The Grace WP does NOT have to be set up so that it dies first - it has to be set up so that other people can die because of its weaknesses. This is why the AoE detaunt didn't break it - and given the number of counters that exist, why the AoE detaunt also wasn't enough to make it viable. It doesn't matter if you don't die... if something happens that prevents you from performing your role. Other people die first, and then you die - just like tanks.

It's quite amusing actually - you don't realize the similarity with the concept of Guard, which arguably has far fewer counters than even the most hellish Grace WP would.

[Tesq]

wp can benefith from the 2h buff even going wrath that is work alredy very fine with offensive tank.(not gona say it's op but thay could alredy do that on live).

Grace that die or make other die mean you are wasting a slot, if you die as healer you party risk a lot to die too especially if you just get in the aoe.
i just know that war is a metter of stack stuff which will make change to wp not relevant, not as long he would not fit in the alredy tested 2-2-2 set up where he can stack stuff efficently.
It mean be primary tank, backline healer or guarded dps. There are not other option for me.
And a melee healer with a medium "robe" (not even medium armor )and with no guard will never do it, even with the aoe detaunt that it could also have in live with 2 x mastery path. The whole system it's his natural couter. A front line reworking grace is not possible unless you just make the wp a healer with cc immunity, tank durability, and incredible offensive power and all of this with out make it broken which is not possible imo cos as you said if it get targetted first then it not gona work.
The step from that change to see 2 x melee wp as on alpha cos they were broken is really small, as if they do not get target first then it mean they are too good cso they are not gona going down, so go 2x melee and unkillable healers.
It's alredy happened and it ended in a huge nerf to WP.
Alternative buff could be done making the WP a better chosen rival, which is alredy do via wounds buff.

[ThePollie]

I like the idea of reworking shield of sigmar into something useful as opposed to the sack of crap it is now.

Maybe useable while ccd

Personal absorb? Cant/shouldnt be a group absorb due to shining light

+parry/disrupt/dodge clicky?

+armor/toughness clicky?

remove disarms in addition to above?

The problem with putting in a disarm "cure" as I see it would be the ability would need to be on a long enough timer so the class isnt immune from disarms because if they were it would be absolutely dipped into for wrath players. So we would be looking at what, a 60 second cd? Which means it would have to be a pretty beastly ability to be worthwhile and effective.

The current concept is fine. The problem lies in its execution. In practice, Sigmar's Shield is a high-cost melee-required single-target heal that requires a target to be attacked to function, and heals very little when actually activated, while having the potential to activate too frequently and will drain the Warrior priest using it in a moment's notice.

None of these problems are difficult to fix.

[ThePollie]

so you are saying this, the concept is fine but is a sack of crap. So whats your rework? None melee activated, low cost, high heal aoe hot? Every aspect of it is bad (and used to be even worse) so the ability needs a complete rework. There is nothing positive to be said about the ability at all.

Keep it melee, that part is fine. Grace will be in melee, anyway.

Making it Undefendable will be make it reliable. The 20 second cool-down makes this ability too vulnerable to parries and blocks, even one beyond cripples the ability.

An internal cool-down of about 0.3 to 0.5 seconds would keep the RF drain at manageable levels.

Boosting the meager 136 heal-per-activation to about 250 or so would make it more efficient for the RF spent.

And that about covers that. The exact numbers to see this ability properly balanced will likely be different. More healing, less healing, etc. But it doesn't need a full rework. Just a buff.

[BrosephStylin]

I don't ever want to see this game balanced around 24v24 or 48v48. I frankly don't see it possibly, anyway.

This right here, this mindset, ruins orvr. Without grand consideration to the big part of the game, where the (again, MAJORITY) players constantly play. Focusing on scenarios instead will ruin entire classes in the actual important part of the game. This is where the large, serious guilds can truly do impressive things with their numbers and strategy against overwhelming odds. A balanced orvr was what the Live devs constantly strived for, even if they did fail half the time. They knew that this was the heart of the game, large battles and sieges between two factions with their powerful guilds behind them. Orvr balance must take priority over everything else, and anything else would ruin the entire purpose of the game.

[ThePollie]

This right here, this mindset, ruins orvr. Without grand consideration to the big part of the game, where the (again, MAJORITY) players constantly play. Focusing on scenarios instead will ruin entire classes in the actual important part of the game. This is where the large, serious guilds can truly do impressive things with their numbers and strategy against overwhelming odds. A balanced orvr was what the Live devs constantly strived for, even if they did fail half the time. They knew that this was the heart of the game, large battles and sieges between two factions with their powerful guilds behind them. Orvr balance must take priority over everything else, and anything else would ruin the entire purpose of the game.

Really? The frantic, unpredictable clusterfuck of AoE spam on open ground and keep doorways is the all-important aspect of WAR? Everything else must grind to a halt so that the zerg isn't inconvenienced.

No half measures, you're an idiot and you lost any chance of convincing me otherwise the moment you tried to argue Live as an example why that should be the focus.

[Scrilian]

Really? The frantic, unpredictable clusterfuck of AoE spam on open ground and keep doorways is the all-important aspect of WAR? Everything else must grind to a halt so that the zerg isn't inconvenienced.

Sorry Mr. Warcamp guardian, that is the WAR and by the sounds of it you lack the true end-game experience and joy of wiping 100+ pugs with one min-maxed 2-2-2 grouped wb. Compared to that what happens on scens/pve is somewhat not important.

[peterthepan3]

^ zergling who has never experienced PvP away from 200vs200 aoe fest/slideshow. That imo is not PvP but you're entitled to believe so.

[bloodi]

^ zergling who has never experienced PvP away from 200vs200 aoe fest/slideshow. That imo is not PvP but you're entitled to believe so.

Dont fight about it, both your stances are equally laughable, the one who thinks premades are mailbox guardians and the one who thinks only real pvp is when we do it in the lab.

The game is about both.

[kristof5]

^ zergling who has never experienced PvP away from 200vs200 aoe fest/slideshow. That imo is not PvP but you're entitled to believe so.

You're lack of knowledge is very disturbing in most if not all of the posts i've seen since joining this cancerous filled forum.

Instead of being critic to whatever doesnt involve 6 mans you should provide constructive critisicm for a chance?

the game should neither be focussed on either 6 mans or Rvr ( zerg zerg zerg in words 6 mans understands)

For some disturbing reason you dont see RVR as pvp? from my understanding most if not all 6 mans see lakes as bigger scenario's? Bombing (or zerg zerg no skill pvp) is still the most effective way of getting rid of bigger number of players, it's those warbands that will take keeps and win city sieges, while in no means i disrespect 6 mans for the sole reason i played in a 6 man on live, i came to see playing in an organized warband is not all about bombing mate.

It requires alot of coördination to work out fine, also not every organized warband is a bomb group this is also some myth thats been around since live.

you should see organized warbands more as bigger 6 mans , while i myself dont enjoy bombing as it is very boring wiping pug warbands the moment you run into an equal sized or bigger organized warband it's literally *who knows how to play in a 6man , and can focus on target x or y better then the opposite warband* bombing doesnt cut it versus other organized warbands especially if these have more numbers.

So cut *the zerg* some slack and be open minded for a change!