[Warrior Priest]Absence of Faith

[ThePollie]

To further elaborate on tactics.

Right now, Wrath is likely to take Divine Fury, Fanaticism, Hastened Divinity, and either Guilty Soul, Endless Guilt, or Divine Justice. Having the heal-debuff tied to a tactic will just hamstring them further by shoving another mandatory tactic down their throat, leaving an already optionless spec even more cookie-cutter.

[Penril]

To further elaborate on tactics.

Right now, Wrath is likely to take Divine Fury, Fanaticism, Hastened Divinity, and either Guilty Soul, Endless Guilt, or Divine Justice. Having the heal-debuff tied to a tactic will just hamstring them further by shoving another mandatory tactic down their throat, leaving an already optionless spec even more cookie-cutter.

How exactly is having several good tactics equivalent to being optionless? That doesnt make any sense.

[Sigimund]

I think he's saying right now there are all those options but if an AoF tactic is mandatory then they disappear.

[ThePollie]

To further elaborate on tactics.

Right now, Wrath is likely to take Divine Fury, Fanaticism, Hastened Divinity, and either Guilty Soul, Endless Guilt, or Divine Justice. Having the heal-debuff tied to a tactic will just hamstring them further by shoving another mandatory tactic down their throat, leaving an already optionless spec even more cookie-cutter.

How exactly is having several good tactics equivalent to being optionless? That doesnt make any sense.

Divine fury isn't "good", it's outright mandatory. You can't not take this, period. Fanaticism's 10% crit and parry chance provides too much to argue against, so it's almost as mandatory. Hastened Divinity is 50% attack-speed on crits, pairs well with Fanaticism, and is again nearly mandatory for good DPS.

That leaves a tactic slot, left. Guilty Soul isn't a 'good' tactic. Right now, it's incredibly RNG based and doesn't work against single-targets. Endless Guilt provides us with a 100% uptime snare that AoEs, which is difficult to pass up. Divine Justice is just extra damage on Wrath's aura, which is again RNG based and two-handers are too slow for good proc rates, anyway.

Virtually every build would just be Divine fury/Fanaticism/Hastened Divinity/Endless Guilt or Divine fury/Fanaticism/Hastened Divinity/Divine Justice. Some might even cross-spec to Grace to grab Greave instead, for the extra toughness and the debuff.

I think he's saying right now there are all those options but if an AoF tactic is mandatory then they disappear.

Partially, yes. Put that tactic in and now you have to sacrifice either the AoE 100% uptime snare, or maybe potentially 600 DPS on auto-attacks, or maybe your 10% crit/parry rate. And for what? For something another DPS can provide, while having better mobility to boot?

[Penril]

Doks have the exact same "problem" (i dont consider having to choose from several good tactics a problem). They still need to stack crit, while the proposed change to AoF doesnt require it. And WP already got free AoE detaunt.

Sorry but i dont see a valid reason to just go ahead and changin AoF by itself. Link it to a tactic and im all for it.

[ThePollie]

Doks have the exact same "problem" (i dont consider having to choose from several good tactics a problem). They still need to stack crit, while the proposed change to AoF doesnt require it. And WP already got free AoE detaunt.

Sorry but i dont see a valid reason to just go ahead and changin AoF by itself. Link it to a tactic and im all for it.

1) I'm not fine with any class being forced into cookie-cutter builds, without leeway for actual customization. I understand there are tactics too good to pass up, but they shouldn't be absolutely mandatory, that you can't even play without them for the sake of something different.

2) DoK's 50%(not 25%) heal-debuff is tied to a tactic, yes, but they don't have a cool-down on theirs. They can reapply this non-stop to a target, or even AoE to apply it to several.

3) I really don't like the argument of "well, this class has this and that, so what the hell, guy?"

[magter3001]

I suggest to change Absence of Faith, the WPs healdebuff, to a 50% (atm 25%) incoming healdebuff and reduce its cooldown to 10s (atm 20s).


Making WP hd equal to the hd of other mdps like witchelf, choppa, slayer and witchhunter in terms of length and cd but superior, to the ones in its own faction, because of his debuff type, curse.
Which is not cleansable by dok.

Why is this hd not op?
The hd alone seems very op since you can only get rid of it with a shaman/zealot singletarget cleanse. BUT, keep in mind that the WP is not equal in terms of dmg dealing to either slayer or witchhunter. The dps he has to be compared to in a 6 man. With less pressure the removal of an hd may become unnecessary in certain situations and in general less impactful.

The problem though is that even if the damage is not comparable with either slayer or witch hunter, the WP has way more survivability. Consider that the WP has medium armor, like slayers, but unlike slayers, don't have to deal with a rage mechanic that would bring them down from medium armor to low armor or deal with the light armor of WHs. On top of that, 2h WPs have an AoE detaunt which further increases their survivability.

Consider this situation... 50% AoE detaunt, plus 50% guard (albeit damaging the tank in the process), and 30% challenge. The AoE detaunt and challenge don't have any drawbacks that guard has and even then it's debatable how much of a drawback guard is with high parry and block on tanks. You're basically taking 17.5% of what you would normally take, considering that the detaunt has no downtime due to both being 15 seconds long.

If the argument is to avoid attacking the WP until last, well then the constant damage, as well as the heal debuff, will eventually drain the healer's resources and you would outlast the enemy. Get two WPs in the same party and you are virtually unkillable... sure you won't deal as much damage as a WH, but you're taking WAY less damage as well. This just screams cheese for me...

I would be singing a different tune if the AoE detaunt required you to use a tactic, but because any idiot with a 2h gets it, well you then can see how stupidly retarded this would become.

You should take your own advise and wait 'til T4 before changing things.

[Sigimund]

Detaunt doesn't stack with guard.

[magter3001]

Detaunt doesn't stack with guard.

Huh... it used to for the longest time on Live. RoR might be different.

EDIT: I just checked it on npc mobs and it does stack... dunno about players though... will do that tomorrow.

[Sigimund]

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 00#p105775

Ask for a manticore if you can get it to stack.