I don't know about anyone else, but i really hate these hippie RvR rules. The thing i loved most about WAR was organized RvR. Ive played a dozen or so games since WAR's demise, and none have been able to compare to organizing and leading my first city siege and king kill.
Back then it was hard as hell to lock a zone, harder to take a fort, and even harder to lock the city for a king attempt. And if you were the underdog as we were, then it was damn near impossible. But that challenge was what made WAR a diamond in a sea full of dirty mmos.
Ive been told that RvR rules are the way they are because the tools havent been written yet to change them. And if thats the case, it is what it is.
But these rules I'm going to list deter any kind of organized and tactical warfare to win on the lakes. Ive also added my thoughts on each.
1. Respawning after a death spawns you in the keep. This makes defending the postern doors of a keep completely worthless. Back in the glory days if you wanted to defend a keep, you had to pray you got close enough to the walls to get rezzed in. And if the attacker was smart, they set up choke points far away from rez range to ensure victory.
2. Needing three objectives to attack a keep door. I really don't understand what this has to do with attacking a keep door. And its really stupid if you have the inner keep door at 5% and three 6 man groups take three objectives simultaneously halfway across the zone that takes 2 mins minimum to get to from the keep.
3. Keep doors resetting to 100%. Back in the day the only way to get a keeps door health up was for the tank to heal it 5% each. There were hundreds of times we would prep doors to 10-5%, then peel off to take an objective to pull the defenders out of the keep, wipe the defenders, then go beat down the door and set up postern defense teams preventing people from entering the keep thus ensuring a successful siege. Keep doors shouldnt magically gain health, they should only be repaired by the tank ability which ive long forgot the name of. There were also a few times when the attackers would be on the inner door, we would repair the outer door from 0 to 5% thus trapping them in, then pour inside the postern and wipe them. Real fun times there.
4. Zones locking by taking two keeps. When this game first came out, no one knew how to lock zones. It just seemed to magically happen. Then we figured out there was a point pool and you had to have a certain amount of points to lock the zone. Each objective gave your realm points, each keep gave your realm points, completing quests gave points, killing players gave points, controlling the lower tiers gave points, and winning or being queued for the scenarios that accompanied that specific zone gave points, all of which decayed over time except keep and objectives. This required a bunch of moving parts to lock a zone, and each had to be on point and prevented the mindless zerg from locking zone after zone.
5. Objectives not giving buffs. When you controlled objectives, your realm would get minor buffs. Either 5% increased magic damage, melee damage, ranged damage and wounds. While they werent game breaking, they did provide a benefit. And my memory may be a little rusty, but i think controlling all 4 gave you a small renown bonus as well.
6. Renown, influence and experience bonuses from the objectives and keeps you participated in on zone lock. When you would lock a zone, you would get a bonus for each objective and keep you helped take. This gave some very large ticks, so large in fact that it was better to RvR for renown than do scenarios. I remember asking my warband once why they kept following me around and they all said because i gave the best renown.
These are just some of the things i can remember off the top of my head. I could go into detail what it took to lock the original city to stage 2 so you could attack the king or warlord before they changed it to the hippie 3 stage scenarios. There is also what it took to successfully take a fort before mythic took that out as well.
I'm not sure what the devs have in mind for forts and city, but i can tell you when mythic took out forts and put in the hippie city scenarios, i quit very shortly after.
I guess the point of this whole post is wanting some actual challenge restored to the game where strategy and tactics was what brought about success, and not which side had the largest zerg.
Old school rules made it hard to succeed and even harder to get the gear for runes that allowed you to progress. t4 keep lords would cleave your raid to death and one shot your tank if they didnt have t3 gear. Fort lords would one shot your tank and cleave your raid in one shot if you didnt have t4 gear. Stage 1 boss of the city would cleave your raid in one shot if you didnt have fort gear or lost vale gear. And the length of time it took to get that gear for runes to progress was perfectly acceptable.
But ive rambled enough. Change the rules to the old school way and it will require a much more mature way to win. Or you can do what mythic did and cater to the zerg which imo destroyed the game.
Restore Old School RvR rules
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Restore Old School RvR rules
Last edited by Neoyoda on Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
/agree I guess
To be fair tho a lot of things are not yet implemented but are planned, and some of the changes made are hopefully just placeholders/tests while we wait. And judging anything based on t3 is going to skew things a bit since t4 is so much different.
To be fair tho a lot of things are not yet implemented but are planned, and some of the changes made are hopefully just placeholders/tests while we wait. And judging anything based on t3 is going to skew things a bit since t4 is so much different.
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- TenTonHammer
- Posts: 3806
Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
I dont think half the suff you listed can be done right now in this stage of the game/server

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
1. Agree.
2. Disagree. The superior force (usually the one that attack the keep) shouldn´t have problems to also defend the battlefield objects. I would call this strategic gameplay instead of /follow zergleader.
3. I don´t know after which time the keep doors regain health, but yes it should take some time (hours) and tanks should have the ability to repair the door. so mostly agree.
4. I remember these times, but locking zones was too hard with this mechanic. and if I remember correctly the required points were not depending on the number of players, which made it even worse. Zone-Locking (and later getting access to enemy city) should be harder, but not as hard as it was in the beginning of WAR. so mostly disagree.
5. I would prefer if battlefield objects directly connected to the keep siege (damage bonus against keep door and keep lord, adding/removing champion npcs), instead of a direct pvp-bonus. Keep Doors and exspecially Lord should also get more HP.
6. Agree.
2. Disagree. The superior force (usually the one that attack the keep) shouldn´t have problems to also defend the battlefield objects. I would call this strategic gameplay instead of /follow zergleader.
3. I don´t know after which time the keep doors regain health, but yes it should take some time (hours) and tanks should have the ability to repair the door. so mostly agree.
4. I remember these times, but locking zones was too hard with this mechanic. and if I remember correctly the required points were not depending on the number of players, which made it even worse. Zone-Locking (and later getting access to enemy city) should be harder, but not as hard as it was in the beginning of WAR. so mostly disagree.
5. I would prefer if battlefield objects directly connected to the keep siege (damage bonus against keep door and keep lord, adding/removing champion npcs), instead of a direct pvp-bonus. Keep Doors and exspecially Lord should also get more HP.
6. Agree.
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM
Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
its all WIP as far as i know
its an Alpha
we'll get new stuff in good time
patience grasshoppers
its an Alpha
we'll get new stuff in good time
patience grasshoppers
Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
1. You can't when Outerdoor down. Only when Outer is still up. After that you are at the mercy of the healers. This is already good.
2. I don't really like the Objective lock/Door the way it's currently implemented either. But it's not terrible and could be worse too. I don't think it's doing the job it intends to do. Yes a 6 man can do a lot for the realm this way but in underdog situation it doesn't help at all. In a underdog situation it's far better for all defenders to be together not splitting up further to get Objectives.
3. Don't care. IT's a WIP, clearly.
4. 100% We need to take both keeps like old times.
5. It can be a good idea but it's not important. What is important is to give players more incentive to stay nearby a Objective and engage in defending so that the enemy is always denied ownership of those BO's. I personally like to just see more renown when you participated in taking more BO's. Players would want to take all BO's in a realm and defend them. Reduce the desire to leave the zone right way so that a longer playtime exists in each pairing.
6. Absolutely
2. I don't really like the Objective lock/Door the way it's currently implemented either. But it's not terrible and could be worse too. I don't think it's doing the job it intends to do. Yes a 6 man can do a lot for the realm this way but in underdog situation it doesn't help at all. In a underdog situation it's far better for all defenders to be together not splitting up further to get Objectives.
3. Don't care. IT's a WIP, clearly.
4. 100% We need to take both keeps like old times.
5. It can be a good idea but it's not important. What is important is to give players more incentive to stay nearby a Objective and engage in defending so that the enemy is always denied ownership of those BO's. I personally like to just see more renown when you participated in taking more BO's. Players would want to take all BO's in a realm and defend them. Reduce the desire to leave the zone right way so that a longer playtime exists in each pairing.
6. Absolutely

Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
TenTonHammer wrote:I dont think half the suff you listed can be done right now in this stage of the game/server
If T1 zone locks based on objectives and winning scenarios then i dont see why you cant set up a point pool for zone locks. Someone was crying that it would make it to hard to lock a zone, but thats the point. It brings balance. If order is zerging hard and destro are queuing, well then its time to stop zerging and queue up to lock a zone.
Another thing i forgot is objective mechanics. Lets say if order takes an objective and is waiting on the 3 mins to lock it, but destro plow through and take the objective, they had to hold it for three minutes before it locked. The way its set up now is if you take it within that 3 mins it locks for 7. Thats not old school rules. I remember some battles lasting 30 mins going back and forth trying to take an objective and that final objective was the difference in locking the zone and pushing into the fort.
My whole point to this post is to create an environment where a certain level of organized pvp is necessary. There is always going to be a zerg, but victory should not be achieved based on who has the biggest zerg. And any real RvR leader knows the frustration of trying to lead the zerg. Its good at going from keep to objective, but it will never, and i mean never be able to make a U turn on the fly. All that creates is a bunch of trash talking and blame game when people should know the limitations of a zerg when they join it.
When im leading org warbands, ive always viewed the zerg as a running back and my warband as the offensive line. Its your job to protect the zerg and send it to do the easy work while you protect its flanks and secure its supply lines.
Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
Absolutely and wholeheartedly agree with Neoyoda, aside from quests and scenarios giving Victory points.
The game uniquely provided ways for the somewhat underpopulated side of the realm to act strategic and use wide arrange of tactics to deny the opposing zerg an easy zone lock.
And for the zerg, if they acted with coordination and sense, to lock the zone, by denying recapturing objectives, keep reinforcements at postern doors, blocking warcamp exists and even monitoring the nearby zones in the pairing.
The game uniquely provided ways for the somewhat underpopulated side of the realm to act strategic and use wide arrange of tactics to deny the opposing zerg an easy zone lock.
And for the zerg, if they acted with coordination and sense, to lock the zone, by denying recapturing objectives, keep reinforcements at postern doors, blocking warcamp exists and even monitoring the nearby zones in the pairing.
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Retired
ex-Greenfire/Invasion RvR leader
Wonderful RvR music videos

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- PartizanRUS
- Posts: 612
Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
2,3 - agree.
AAO is the main buff and its all we need.
Thats the only part that sounds bad. Unneeded buffs from thin air. Honestly I don't even remember if this kind of bs existed.Neoyoda wrote: 5. Objectives not giving buffs. When you controlled objectives, your realm would get minor buffs. Either 5% increased magic damage, melee damage, ranged damage and wounds. While they werent game breaking, they did provide a benefit.
AAO is the main buff and its all we need.
Burn heretics and mutants, purge the unclean. ingame - Partizan . Hammer of Sigmar guild [RUS]
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Re: Restore Old School RvR rules
I agree with OP and I personally like the original system more, but don't forget it had it's own problems.
Needing to have people pve'ing and doing PQ's for locks, the fact that one of the easiest ways to prevent a lock was to simply leave the zone.
But I am not sure how feasible it would be for the RoR devs to recreate the old system. Is it even possible?
Needing to have people pve'ing and doing PQ's for locks, the fact that one of the easiest ways to prevent a lock was to simply leave the zone.
But I am not sure how feasible it would be for the RoR devs to recreate the old system. Is it even possible?
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