Dual Wield and Greatweapon balance

[Jaycub]

10% armor pen is worse against tanks compared to 10% block strikethrough

[OlasGreyscale]

No objections and I strongly support the change.

[Sigimund]

This seems like a simple no-brainer change that players have been asking for since the game came out. It is 8 years overdue. I wish the devs on live had been this active.

The fact that 2HvDW will cancel out and 2Hv2H or DWvDW will have equal effects just feels balanced to me. I really don't like the idea of a special exception for one class though. If their burst is too high, nerf it. Keep the global rules global.

[Bretin]

I'll keep it brief.

Dual wield grants the useful 10% parry bonus and the chance for more procs because you attack 46% more often than with a two-handed weapon of the same weapon speed.

Great weapons grant the useless 10% block strikethrough bonus and, some say, better burst potential because slower weapons have a 54% chance to outdamage the initial attack from a dual wield weapon of the same speed, at the cost of fewer procs.

I'm proposing changing the useless 10% block strikethrough to 10% parry strikethrough instead.

Any objections?

First of all I would like to clarify what we are talking about.
A change that is favoring one realm more than the other can be considered a balance change.
Knowing that we have to make sure this change is necessary.
Which will be difficult since this patch buffs 2 archetypes at once. Therefore I would like to leave 2h tanks out for the moment. Whether they need a buff or not should be discussed separately.

What does this balance change really change?
Basically mdps burst receives a buff. The outcome is hard to know at the current lvl cap since choppa/slayer miss an essential tactic and therefore are forced to not take the middle (2h) tree.

Does burst dmg need a buff?
The ttk we have right now is rather short compared to live. We can only imagine what a 2h slayer/choppa is capabable of.

Why is 2h not way worse than dual wield?
Well it is about the difference of burst and sustain dmg. The last is doing more dmg in the long run but does that kill a healed guarded target? Slowly in the best case. ( anything else can only be described as a l2p issue sry)
2h needs! to do less dmg (over time) than dual wield because of its different approach.
High dmg in a short period of time is harder to outheal, riskier, enables plays (like guardkick) and should grant a higher reward (kill). High risk high reward.


Why 2h SEEMS way worse than dual wield?
Dual wield, as a source of sustain dmg, doesnt require as much coordination as 2h does. Also it is more defensive. Ideal for solo players. Since the majority here doesnt have a grp with 2 dps 2 tanks and 2 healers on a regular basis I highly doubt that the impact this change would have on the burst meta (that is to say a meleetrain with wl/sl) can be predicted correctly by them.

I am not saying that 2h has to necessarily stay as it is in the future.
I just want to have fully built 2h slayers and choppas before thinking about a 2h buff.

[Penril]

Nice post.

[ThePollie]

If it becomes an issue later, the process can always be reverted.

[Azarael]

Fair enough. Shelving this for now.

[Penril]

What if 2h gave you +10% dodge or disrupt (or maybe even both) instead of block through?

[geraldtarrant]

I think things are changing too quickly. What is the outcome of the WP detaunt change? Is that going to stay? When does the trial period end and how is this being evaluated? Gear sets will change things a bit too, by buffing WP and DoK healing.

I don't like this willy nilly approach to balance changes. I think it's really important to make only one change at a time, so the whole picture gets properly look at.

+1
Tbh i expected changes will take place when we reach T4 , not sooner.

[ThePollie]

I think things are changing too quickly. What is the outcome of the WP detaunt change? Is that going to stay? When does the trial period end and how is this being evaluated? Gear sets will change things a bit too, by buffing WP and DoK healing.

I don't like this willy nilly approach to balance changes. I think it's really important to make only one change at a time, so the whole picture gets properly look at.

The outcome? It's a nice boon to melee healing survivability, but it isn't the huge game-breaking 110% meta-shifting buff people screamed it would be. You'll still be vaporized the second you get any sort of focus without a guard glued to you. The AoE detaunt just means you can operate a little more independently of a guard without being floored the second more than one enemy targets you.

Something a lot of you seem to not understand is that they can revert changes. If the armour sets are too powerful, it isn't simply a permanent issue we'll have to forever deal with it. Give Wrath a 50% heal-debuff? Make Pounce work at further ranges? Magus with 3000 baseline armour? If it breaks the game, they just reverse the change and figure something else out.