[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[Azarael]

Echoing Genisaurus' opinion, with my thanks for saving me from having to formulate a post to express it. Appealing to how melee healers were on live to attempt to block a change isn't going to work, sorry.

[bloodi]

Appealing to how melee healers were on live to attempt to block a change isn't going to work, sorry.

After seeing all the talk about how much better Dok were, i decided that since i mostly played melee wp on retail i should give Dok a chance to check what made them much better.

I did my usuall bullshit of scs since level 1, in the first one i was a bit useless but got much better with each one, then i reached level 6, got Khaines Invigoration instead of Transfer essence, got depressed about it and logged out.

What i am saying is in Live not only it was a forgotten spec, they actively tried to kill it to appease idiots who complained about duels and minor scale combat.

If you ever appeal to how Dk/Wp were on live as a good thing, you are going to hell, thats all i am saying.

[Vigfuss]

If you don't have something constructive to post, don't post.

Actually my post demonstrates how one change can affect other things.

That what? Buffing a class causes others to whine that their class needs buffed?

I don't care. It happens already, and that fact isn't relevant to whether or not anything else needs buffed or nerfed.

You want to affect change, present the developers with information and they will act accordingly.

I'll admit I'm being a bit sarcastic there. But when a new or casual player comes into the game they will likely get the wrong impression about what is effective or not, based on their experience in the low tiers. I can't count how many times I read this question in /advice on live. "Which is better for dps, DoK or Mara?" All because of a player's experience in casual play.

When a large fraction of classes played "as they were meant to be played" require support from other classes, then it can be a mistake to change the way the support meta works for the average player.

[ThePollie]

I'll admit I'm being a bit sarcastic there. But when a new or casual player comes into the game they will likely get the wrong impression about what is effective or not, based on their experience in the low tiers. I can't count how many times I read this question in /advice on live. "Which is better for dps, DoK or Mara?" All because of a player's experience in casual play.

When a large fraction of classes played "as they were meant to be played" require support from other classes, then it can be a mistake to change the way the support meta works for the average player.

Then educate them.

[Sigimund]

Regarding arcing power, heals on on autoattack and bringing back divine strike. These could be quite fun but I do not think they solve the core problems. A strong spammable AOE heal and a ST burst heal is a solid combination of melee heals. Lets just make sure WPs get to use them.

One of the challenges that came up a lot was lifetapping from tanks or even defensive MDPS. This becomes a bigger problem the higher you rank up as players get access to more of their defensive gear/renowns/tactics. Unless you prefer waiting for squigs in your back line or overextending into the enemy ranged, the front line is where you will fight. A shield tank will starve you out.

For me, the best option for the 11x Grace tactic is to make Sigmar's Radiance and Divine Assault undefendable. This way the baseline (no tactics) Grace WP can be made to heal for competitive numbers but has the option in higher tiers to slot a tactic so that they can heal with less interference while attacking the enemy front line.

[bloodi]

Regarding arcing power, heals on on autoattack and bringing back divine strike. These could be quite fun but I do not think they solve the core problems. A strong spammable AOE heal and a ST burst heal is a solid combination of melee heals. Lets just make sure WPs get to use them.

For me, the best option for the 11x Grace tactic is to make Sigmar's Radiance and Divine Assault undefendable. This way the baseline (no tactics) Grace WP can be made to heal for competitive numbers but has the option in higher tiers to slot a tactic so that they can heal with less interference while attacking the enemy front line.

The point of divine strike is to be able to melee heal before level 30, thats why you got it at 6 and now it leaves you unable to do so until level 30, where is not really the best time to learn how to do so.

But anyway i wasnt making a point to bring back divine strike/transfer essence, http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... f=8&t=2561 as you can see i already tried that long ago and was told its just not feasible, i was just making a point that the Live state of the game was not something to look up to.

As for undefendable, i may be the number one critic about how worthless i think the whole concept is and even if i would have to admit that it would be good for dok/wp i would much rather see it as baseline than another mandatory tactic they have no slots for.

[Sigimund]

The point of divine strike is to be able to melee heal before level 30, thats why you got it at 6 and leaves you unable to do so until level 30, where is not really the best time to learn how to do so.

Aha, I get you now. This is a really good point. The solution is to make Sigmar's Radiance available sooner. I would say some time in T2 which is when book healers get their most important heal too. Either that or swap Divine Assault and Sigmar's Radiance (heresy).

Regarding undefendable, I once had every hit in a Divine Assault parried by a choppa. I picked on the wrong choppa but tanks are worse. Depending on your priorities the detaunt change freed up a tactic slot. For a non-DPS melee heal spec I probably would take it.

[kaela]

The whole point of giving melee healers access to the Targetted AoE detaunt for free is to reduce their need for guard. Yes, guard will always be better than a detaunt, but this allows them to at least do their job under some circumstances without guard, instead of none.

The melee healer may do his job (what would it be?) under some circumstances without guard, in all others he will certainly die without guard.

You really need to understand this if you want to keep up. Everybody who's arguing against buffing melee healers also thinks they can't heal as well as a straight healer, nor can they DPS as much as an MDPS, and therefore they are useless. That's not an argument against the change, that is why the change is made in the first place. It doesn't matter if you "can't" replace a healer with a melee healer, you should be able to. That is why the Warrior Priest's entire mechanic is, "I hit things in melee to get resources to spend on healing."

I was crazy enough to play a melee-dok and a heal-dok up to RR100 on life, so no need to tell me the complains about melee-healer, I've heard them all. From my experience a dok/wp can dps like a real mdps or heal but he (or she) has to decide for one of them.
The idea of a hybrid heal class was good intended but in the min/max world of a pvp game, such a hybrid class would be way too over powered.
So they got a niche in open rvr to be the mid-back healer, watching over other healers so no dd need to fall back if backline is attacked lightly. I guess that was the idea at first, but then it began the age of bombing in warhammer and there was no more place for a hybrid healer in such nasty environment.

[SilverWF]

...
How it's going on T1? Wagons of 2h Wps, steamrolling all around?

Going to make a wp, it should be pretty fun running around in t1 with a aoe detaunt.

Already did
So amazing: detaunt all that damn sorcs and shs in just one button click and running in front of them laughting
My survivability is more than tanks one
Sure, I still need side healer but in less value than in was before.
My special /laugh now always going to 2w DOKs - they are so loosers

[TenTonHammer]

Heres a question, we talked about the WP wounds thing and how its weak because it gets severed, what if we changed the type to a buff but changed some variables so that it dosnt become op?