Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

[Tiggo]

This is exactly why the general queuing system will never force groups of any size to only play against each other. We can have specific 6v6 scenarios that only allow 6-man groups to queue for them, that's fine and not abusable in any way i can see.

But general-queue SCs will only ever, at best, try to keep the number and size of groups even on either side. If a 6-man queues for a general-queue scenario, the matchmaking system can try to find another 6-man on the opposing team, and if it can't find one it can search for a 5-man, etc. We will not put premades in a separate queue altogether.

yes 100%

another question: can you make it so the sc doesnt start imbalanced number wise, but at least waits till both sides have equal number or prolong the timer for 10+ seconds until it is?

[Gobtar]

I would like to see a SC listing that has a 4 SCs for anybody, 2 for 12v12 and 1 for 6v6. The 12v12 rotate on a queue (every week the queue changes with Oldest SCs coming out and the newest one comes in, so each SC is the queue listing for 2 weeks.)

The 6v6 are based on small maps that are brutal and central.
I think here is a list of 6v6 that rotate each week:
-Gates of Ekrund
-Eternal Citadel
-Lost Temple of Isha

The 12v12 maps are bigger but also focus more on beatem up, king of the hill with Nordenwatch as the crowd-favoured exception

-Nordenwatch
-Lost Temple of Isha
-Caledor Woods
-Battle for Praag
-Mourkain Temple
-Phoenix Gate
-Black Fire Basin

PUG SCs focus on splitting the enemy, with decentralized fighting, this means a chaotic mess and that's fine for individual play, or PvE recovery, I don't know about a rotation but always keep Nordenwatch in there (tried and true):
-Nordenwatch (always good)
-Ekrund
-Reikland Factory,
-Stone Troll Crossing
-Reikland hills
-Tor Anroc (just cause lava is a great equalizer)
-Doomfist Crater
-Dragon's Bane
-Khaine's Embrace
-Kadrin Valley Pass

I am with Penril in that most premades want to fight other premades...give them special scenarios to fight in and it will be even more enticing.

[warhammer69]

Maybe if destro would get their **** together and stop being so mindless in scs and orvr. Why bother trying to carry your team ( as a healer ) when they try to kill dps/tanks before they even consider going after the healers behind them keeping the group up. Waste of time unless your in a premade It's an embarrassment playing destro side sometime ( most of the time )

[Penril]

I´ve lost count of how many times i have said in SC chat "stop playing with their tanks and push their backlines FFS!!!".

[Tklees]

So the main issue I see here is that players have a carrying range of skill. I hate to say this but wow solved this with a ranked PvP and a non ranked PvP system. If you went into ranked without a decent setup and gear you would expect to lose or be carried by a better player. And then you could run non ranked on your alts or just to have fun.

I truly think this is the only way to solve the current pug stomp issues we have.

[rmpl]

I'm surprised ranks 32 aren't in a separate tier than 22-31. r22 vs r32rr40 with full dev, decked up talismans and potions, fun fun fun.

[Genisaurus]

So the main issue I see here is that players have a carrying range of skill. I hate to say this but wow solved this with a ranked PvP and a non ranked PvP system. If you went into ranked without a decent setup and gear you would expect to lose or be carried by a better player. And then you could run non ranked on your alts or just to have fun.

I truly think this is the only way to solve the current pug stomp issues we have.

So what happens when someone with Best-in-Slot gear joins an unranked SC with a bunch of undergeared alts?

There has been some talk internally of tracking individual performance metrics some how and filling queues based on that, but frankly, I don't think we have a large enough playerbase to adequately split like that. In other words, if the matchmaking system has to account for 1. Group size, 2. Archetype presence 3. Player ELO, we'll never get anywhere.

[Bozzax]

The worst part is that, when i pug, i only fight premades. And when my guildies log in and i finally have a premade of my own, i only fight Pugs in SCs.

+1

PUG SCs focus on splitting the enemy, with decentralized fighting, this means a chaotic mess and that's fine for individual play, or PvE recovery,

IMO no maps should be labeled pug or premade just use a map that fits what is starting.

Small maps 6v6
Medium maps 6v6, 12v12
Large maps 12v12, 18v18, 24v24

So what happens when someone with Best-in-Slot gear joins an unranked SC with a bunch of undergeared alts?

Well ideally something like this would help that problem

Premades should fight premades when available or high RR pugs
High RR pugs should go as fillers for partial premeds or as High RR pug team with good comp vs premades
Low RR pugs should fight other pugs

IMO fielding near optimal teams is important factor to balance a sc. Therfore define a set of viable team templates and use them for groups.

Hold dps / tanks / heals in separate pools (not queues) and fill "team templates". Ideally sort queuers based on stats so dps Ams go as DPS etc.

Would be neat to calculate the total RR of both sides and use it ti give something like a SC AAO for the weaker side.

When population don't support it use what we have today.

[Gerv]

My premade and another Destro premade joined a scenario last night, Tor Anroc, and we had them outnumbered 12v8. Instead of coming at us and getting smashed, or just sitting in the spawn, the other team jumped down into the lava and fought from the rocks. This made us come to them, and we actually ended up losing. So, instead of being a quitter, like some have mentioned previously in this thread, they overcame the situation and prevailed. Total props to them!

Thanks for the props Zabis, our TS chat was along the lines of
Rayray/Thorane "wow we are out numbered 2-1, lets stay back, wait for more pugs, don't give them high ground"
Shlomo "jump down here we can fight them on the rocks, then they have to come to us"
Rayray "sure go, see what happens"

Fun sc, just different, Old School and Isha's Moon thank you for that.

[Gerv]

Only a bad premade would go "hey, lets form a 5 man so we can farm pugs". And these premades are easy to beat, even while pugging.

Good premades look for good fights.

Amen to that, I think we ran in to 2 different premades last night on 3 occasions while qu'ing our premade, and we likely played 10 scs. Your group and then a Magus group. Since you seem to play late night USA I would be all for bringing our combined Old School/Isha's Moon premade to these 6v6s.