[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[ThePollie]

If you're getting 12k off a Divine Assault, you're hitting for 857 per attack on every attack. That's outlandish damage, and if you manage to find a target that is squishy, totally debuffed and not guarded then you're playing a bad team.

Mind you, that takes a full damage build, critical hits on every strike, against a target with absolutely zero mitigation.

In practice, I've never seen anything even remotely half-way close to that. Anyone within range of Divine Assault is likely melee and will have a Guard, likely buffed and potioned with resistance and armour, and can always parry.

I tend to average 87-160 damage on Divine Assault, per strike. With criticals it can be better, but with only 2% chance it's not something I think about much. Especially since lately I've been finding a lot more people are mindful of interrupting it with disarms and knockdowns.

-Edit- While I'm thinking about it, if anyone has done serious testing with Emperor's Ward and it's viability, I'd appreciate it.

Another edit because-

If you're getting -12k- off a Divine Assault, you're hitting for 857 per attack on every attack. That's outlandish damage, and if you manage to find a target that is squishy, totally debuffed and not guarded then you're playing a bad team.

This is a prime example why I should've been in bed seven hours ago. Put in the wrong number, there. I meant 1,200 healing, not bloody 12,000. And that's per swing, not altogether. Good god. I think unmitigated I hit for 308 on Divine assault? Give or take, but god no I can't do 857.

[Luth]

-Edit- While I'm thinking about it, if anyone has done serious testing with Emperor's Ward and it's viability, I'd appreciate it.

Emperor's Ward is somewhat valuable in lower tiers, but it is less and less valuable in T2 and absolutely useless in T3-T4.
In T1 it can soak up 1AA+ ability damage, in T4 it is removed by a dot tick; it really doesn't scale well compared to the raised damage potential when advancing through the tiers.

[ThePollie]

Emperor's Ward is somewhat valuable in lower tiers, but it is less and less valuable in T2 and absolutely useless in T3-T4.
In T1 it can soak up 1AA+ ability damage, in T4 it is removed by a dot tick; it really doesn't scale well compared to the raised damage potential when advancing through the tiers.

A pity, but I expected about as much. I did a quick test of it before a scenario pop, found it only proc't about once every fifteen attacks. Between that and the low absorb, seemed rather dull.

[Luth]

Yes, in T1 you also don't have that many tactic options, but later there are much better tactics. Most of the racial tactics are very lame, there is only a handful that can compete with class tactics

[SilverWF]

I hope, Divine Petitioning tactic will be fixed here, right?

[Sigimund]

So the big problem I keep seeing mentioned is defended attacks or mitigated attacks reducing healing output. Is there anyway for the healing compent of each ability in melee to be guaranteed? Like casting a heal while the damage part of it goes through basic mitigation. An example would be RA healing for 3 ticks of x, while doing damage y over 3 ticks. I think this would make the numbers consistent and the supplement damage contained. While still keeping the benefit of debuff free healing.

I imagine it is probably mechanically difficult to literally run the heal and the damage as two completely different spells. But there are ways to achieve the same effect.

In terms of containing the damage while achieving viable healing levels, Sigmar's Radiance (and the associated tactic) do some healing based on damage and some healing from a flat component that is not affected by damage/armor. The flat part is probably the number to tweak. For the block/parry issue the solution might be something like the Potent Runes tactic.

So migrating the healing buff from the Grace of Sigmar tactic to the baseline Sigmar's Radiance ability, then putting a Potent Runes style tactic in its place to make S'R and DA more reliable before finally tweaking the numbers on the heal component to be competitive and I think your points are covered. What do you think?

[Azarael]

I hope, Divine Petitioning tactic will be fixed here, right?

Yes, it will.

That said, please stay out of this topic if all you want to do is come in to point out potential issues that Destruction could suffer from. This topic is about melee healers.

[Tiggo]

on the multiple stats problem: how about making willpower contributing to the healing part of the melee abilities? AFAIK right now its only a fixed derivation of the melee dmg? It could even be that that way even if your melee skill is parried it will still heal the willpower portion to your defensive target? (easying the problem with parry/block derivating no heals).

[Tklees]

So the big problem I keep seeing mentioned is defended attacks or mitigated attacks reducing healing output. Is there anyway for the healing compent of each ability in melee to be guaranteed? Like casting a heal while the damage part of it goes through basic mitigation. An example would be RA healing for 3 ticks of x, while doing damage y over 3 ticks. I think this would make the numbers consistent and the supplement damage contained. While still keeping the benefit of debuff free healing.

I imagine it is probably mechanically difficult to literally run the heal and the damage as two completely different spells. But there are ways to achieve the same effect.

In terms of containing the damage while achieving viable healing levels, Sigmar's Radiance (and the associated tactic) do some healing based on damage and some healing from a flat component that is not affected by damage/armor. The flat part is probably the number to tweak. For the block/parry issue the solution might be something like the Potent Runes tactic.

So migrating the healing buff from the Grace of Sigmar tactic to the baseline Sigmar's Radiance ability, then putting a Potent Runes style tactic in its place to make S'R and DA more reliable before finally tweaking the numbers on the heal component to be competitive and I think your points are covered. What do you think?

I think that sounds pretty good. The base heal is the number I was talking about in my post. There just isn't one on RA/RS so I think having a base heal on all melee heals is important to the viability of this rework. I also think some tatic needs to be put in the book tree that encourages a full grace part book build that could include group hot and bubble. Removing the aoe detaunt tatic from wrath tree makes this spec much more viable and removes the need to spec wrath

[Nexii]

on the multiple stats problem: how about making willpower contributing to the healing part of the melee abilities? AFAIK right now its only a fixed derivation of the melee dmg? It could even be that that way even if your melee skill is parried it will still heal the willpower portion to your defensive target? (easying the problem with parry/block derivating no heals).

This is what i was going to add, i'm not sure if it's possible for the devs to do yet? But myself and some very experienced WP's used to put the world to right about melee WP healing when the game was live, and we came to the conclusion that damage portion should scale from strength and the healing portion scale from willpower, that would make the awful stat itemisation look sort of logical. at the end of the day the balance of a full melee healing WP should have the healing output of a backline healer and the damage output of a defensive tank. but i appreciate the effort AZ is putting in and with the possibility of intimidating repent being moved into the base detaunt, replace that slot with a brute force style tactic for the dps wanna be's to use.