Shadow Sting; The controversy

[tomato]

He's right, mdps are only viable in a premade. Rdps are way better for pugging.
That was almost always the case, and it's the reason so many ppl play rdps right now.

[Greatwarden]

can u just stop looking at squig vs SW 1v1.... this **** doesn;t happen and SW shits all over SH as far as grp utility goes which is all that matters in WAR

The 'group utility' of an RDPS is to apply enough DPS to kill things (preferably without needing a guard in the back lines). Everything else is fluff. You are very much underestimating the usefulness of a SH and exaggerating the group utility of the SW.

Think of it this way: no one chooses BWs and Sorcs because of their (admittedly very nice) group buffs, they choose them because they do damage.

[Greatwarden]

so having to rely on a buggy pet is worth more than 15% crit chance for your grp and a ranged knockdown in your books???

To be fair, the spike squig is probably the LEAST affected by bugs since it's both mobile AND ranged.

Also, there's something to be said of a range class that is more resistant than most to ranged detaunts since the damage is coming from two sources.

Finally, a 4 second instant-cast disarm on any SQUIG means that SHs can eat SWs for breakfast.

The SH has several pets' worth of extra abilities that make SWs look bad in comparison (and, unlike the WL, can use them from range).

Sadly, but squigs are strong hittinl until t4. At T4 there is a tons of armor even for clothers, so pets becomes sh*t pretty fast.
And do not forget, that SH can't switch pet on demand, like SW can switch stances. Summoning pet requires 2 sec cast on place and every of them has 30sec CD.
Also, every pet "stance" do not have additional bonuses. i.e. Horned gives only 10% increased range, while Scout stance - also a tons of BS.
And do not even try to compare disarm and knockdown: while disarmed you can freely go out of LOS. And SW has disarm too. This is melee skill, but still.

You're right about armor going up when we hit T4 but I'm not sure if pet damage plateau like in OldWar. It's possible.

Yes switching Squigs is not easy, but the point remains that the squig is a bundle of abilities IN ADDITION the average classes' allotment. The SH runs around with all its abilities PLUS what the squig can do.

Compare this to the SW which (like the Mara) is locked out of 2/3 of its abilities in any one stance. Yes both SH and SW faces limits to what it can do at any one time but SH simply has more abilities available to it in any instance (partly due to having a pet and partly due to not having a stance mechanic).

As for comparing the disarm and knockdown: I wasn't trying to say that the disarm was more useful. What I mean is that: with the 4s disarm (on a ranged pet) and being partially resistant to single-target detaunts (damage coming from 2 sources), SHs eat SWs. It's not a matter of solo roaming, 1v1 or group play: SHs eat SWs when both players are equally skilled.

[Foxbeep]

I still think what SH has or doesn't have is irrelevant

I don't want to one shot things, I don't want to kite indefinitely, I just want my viable assault spec back.

[TenTonHammer]

I still think what SH has or doesn't have is irrelevant

I don't want to one shot things, I don't want to kite indefinitely, I just want my viable assault spec back.

how does 9 point ss make assault spec nonviable?

[Foxbeep]

Because that's 10 points into skirmish for a debuff assault spec desperately needs, not to mention it's a DoT on par with Draw Blood.

Also because, I really really hope this is the last time I have to say this

It was 6 points in live, it wasn't OP then
Why is it 9 points now?

It's a change for no reason other than to limit build variety for the sake of T2 which we're no longer stuck in.

[TenTonHammer]

It was 6 points in live, it wasn't OP then
Why is it 9 points now?

It's a change for no reason other than to limit build variety for the sake of T2 which we're no longer stuck in.

because SW's are already strong in t1-2 and to give them a 5 point Hdbuff while destro does not get theirs till later levels is imbalanced at lower levels and would make the class very op in those tiers?

[Foxbeep]

Honestly I think it would be a fair change to make it only applicable on one target at a time, or give it a short cooldown. 6s would put it right at the point where any shaman should be able to cleanse it

[Foxbeep]

It was 6 points in live, it wasn't OP then
Why is it 9 points now?

It's a change for no reason other than to limit build variety for the sake of T2 which we're no longer stuck in.

because SW's are already strong in t1-2 and to give them a 5 point Hdbuff while destro does not get theirs till later levels is imbalanced at lower levels and would make the class very op in those tiers?

You do realize that SWs wouldn't get it until 19 at the earliest, right?
They'd almost be out of T2 by then, most classes start to feel OP at that point anyways due to gear/level powergap.

Don't move the goalposts, it's fine at the 6 point slot now that we're past t2.

[Penril]

You do realize that SWs wouldn't get it until 19 at the earliest, right?
They'd almost be out of T2 by then, most classes start to feel OP at that point anyways due to gear/level powergap.

Don't move the goalposts, it's fine at the 6 point slot now that we're past t2.

It's not fine because only one side gets it. You can't ignore balance in the lower tiers.