WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[Yellowemperor]

Nickname of your wh? Wanna see how insanely good that build is. Losing a lot of things for just abso spam sounds really weird, it means no TRI proc, str talis 6 sov build, that look like oriented for dueling melles in long long semikiting casino absospam dance. Dunno how it helps against any ranged oponent, and why trade it for dragon gun/bal build when u can just chain repell+m1 with denial of oponents m1 if you need duel melles. Only thing new mech added is 30ft 10 sec cd posibility to shoot, can say its pretty meh in grouplay, and feels like bad joke when we asked normal snare to stick to those cursed kiting shams, zeals, maguses etc. We suppose to counterkite them with 30ft 10sec skillcombo or smtng? Comparing to SSburst potentional, wound cutter and gapclossing damage skill with snare, phys venehemed blades, agonise spam tactic this feels really weird unnecessary change, but few people say its for some reason OP, and im still failing to see that OP part so feel free to convince me. On top we lost all burst in bal/healdebuff spec tnx to nerf/moving seal.

Just checked your WH and you haven't played him since November.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... er/1809879

[Sever1n]

Just checked your WH and you haven't played him since November.

That is impressive detective work of revealing my dark secret. Obviousy i shoud be judged as heretic and traitor of Holy Order, accused in spreading lies about holy powers of Sigmars faithful followers. I was hiding elf ears under hat all that time, also. If u dig deeper maybe it will turn out that im WE.

[Farrul]

This notion of balancing by utility is daft, how do you measure the success of utility if its not kill power? WoW vanilla paladin had all the utility in the world, but was awful in pvp. For me, the obvious question should be, does that utility deliver results? As things stand, def WE is 4th in the solo meta imo.

Oh, it's certainly measured in kill power among other things, such as control/escape/survivability power, since a dead DPS does not have any kill power. Your def WL would die to a 6 man and instant die to a 24 man WB or even fast to the 3 WE players ganking him, sending you to the GY. Def WE? She plays a different game.

Are you seriously asking why having stealth and stealth utility tools is an advantage vs not having it? Ever heard of the element of surprise and what it entails? Your comment makes Sun Tzu turn in his grave.

P.S. WoW paladin and a Stealth class in RoR are two very different animals, please never compare them again for the sanity of all.

You talk about escape ability and suggest WH is balanced, but WH has more escape utility than a def WE, which doesn't use sprint elixir where a BAL WH will. A WH also does considerably more sustain dps, by miles. I have 80 WH and WE, WH is my main. I've played both for a good 50 hours post mdps patch, they were made distinct, BAL + Blessed Blade and Flowing Accusations spec is insanely good, can spam ranged Absolutions with 60% crit chance and 60%+ armour pen over and over with Incendiary Shot to fill in the gaps from range when Flowing Accusations doesn't proc. Can get 5-6 ranged Absolutions off each critting for 1k+. That's post opener with a 4 accusation BAL. Crazy good.

You should read more carefully next time, i've written ''arguably'' ( On the WH being balanced part).

Not sure what dps on a glass cannon WH has to do with this point, but anyways we def gear OP absorb tactic lifesteal magic dps itemization etc, squish WH can't compare.

Your conclusions are laughable. Removing stealth from def WE? That would just make it a lower damage more vulnerable WL/Mara with poor group utility, no pull, no armour debuff, no crit buff, no snare, no root. Not to mention the thematic inconsistency. Def WE needs 1v1s, it's incredibly weak in anything other than a 1v1, it simply wouldn't be used without stealth. Very odd.

Are you being intentionally dishonest to score a cheap point now? Or perhaps reading comprehension/intepretation issues?

If so let me assist you to comprehend, and i quote myself:

Hence this may seem harsh, but a ''def we'' should not have stealth at all, in this case they could have a tree dedicated to being a medium/tanky melee brawler but the ''Prowl'' ability would be disabled. That actually could be really interesting as a concept and add real diversity to a class (of course it would need to be reworked, obviously to fit the playstyle better).

Meaning, no i'm not suggesting that the current ''Def WE'' should have stealth ''removed''. I am saying that it could be reworked(keyword) into a different spec that would lose stealth in favor of being a melee brawler spec style, in fact this is closer to the lore of the Witch elf character in case you are confused about the ''theme''. Def+ stealth is anti WE theme, she is supposed to be frenzied maniac that cares little for her personal defence.

From the lore wiki:

''Witch Elves drink blood laced with poisonous herbs, driving them into a divine frenzy. The Witch Elves give no thought to their own defence, and seek only to hack foes apart in a blood-drenched orgy of slaughter''

But main point being that a ''Def WE'' shouldn't be a thing at all for a stealth character, if balance is considered.

[nat3s]

This notion of balancing by utility is daft, how do you measure the success of utility if its not kill power? WoW vanilla paladin had all the utility in the world, but was awful in pvp. For me, the obvious question should be, does that utility deliver results? As things stand, def WE is 4th in the solo meta imo.

Oh, it's certainly measured in kill power among other things, such as control/escape/survivability power, since a dead DPS does not have any kill power. Your def WL would die to a 6 man and instant die to a 24 man WB or even fast to the 3 WE players ganking him, sending you to the GY. Def WE? She plays a different game.

Are you seriously asking why having stealth and stealth utility tools is an advantage vs not having it? Ever heard of the element of surprise and what it entails? Your comment makes Sun Tzu turn in his grave.

P.S. WoW paladin and a Stealth class in RoR are two very different animals, please never compare them again for the sanity of all.

You talk about escape ability and suggest WH is balanced, but WH has more escape utility than a def WE, which doesn't use sprint elixir where a BAL WH will. A WH also does considerably more sustain dps, by miles. I have 80 WH and WE, WH is my main. I've played both for a good 50 hours post mdps patch, they were made distinct, BAL + Blessed Blade and Flowing Accusations spec is insanely good, can spam ranged Absolutions with 60% crit chance and 60%+ armour pen over and over with Incendiary Shot to fill in the gaps from range when Flowing Accusations doesn't proc. Can get 5-6 ranged Absolutions off each critting for 1k+. That's post opener with a 4 accusation BAL. Crazy good.

You should read more carefully next time, i've written ''arguably'' ( On the WH being balanced part).

Not sure what dps on a glass cannon WH has to do with this point, but anyways we def gear OP absorb tactic lifesteal magic dps itemization etc, squish WH can't compare.

Your conclusions are laughable. Removing stealth from def WE? That would just make it a lower damage more vulnerable WL/Mara with poor group utility, no pull, no armour debuff, no crit buff, no snare, no root. Not to mention the thematic inconsistency. Def WE needs 1v1s, it's incredibly weak in anything other than a 1v1, it simply wouldn't be used without stealth. Very odd.

Are you being intentionally dishonest to score a cheap point now? Or perhaps reading comprehension/intepretation issues?

If so let me assist you to comprehend, and i quote myself:

Hence this may seem harsh, but a ''def we'' should not have stealth at all, in this case they could have a tree dedicated to being a medium/tanky melee brawler but the ''Prowl'' ability would be disabled. That actually could be really interesting as a concept and add real diversity to a class (of course it would need to be reworked, obviously to fit the playstyle better).

Meaning, no i'm not suggesting that the current ''Def WE'' should have stealth ''removed''. I am saying that it could be reworked(keyword) into a different spec that would lose stealth in favor of being a melee brawler spec style, in fact this is closer to the lore of the Witch elf character in case you are confused about the ''theme''. Def+ stealth is anti WE theme, she is supposed to be frenzied maniac that cares little for her personal defence.

From the lore wiki:

''Witch Elves drink blood laced with poisonous herbs, driving them into a divine frenzy. The Witch Elves give no thought to their own defence, and seek only to hack foes apart in a blood-drenched orgy of slaughter''

But main point being that a ''Def WE'' shouldn't be a thing at all for a stealth character, if balance is considered.

Dripping with passive aggression. We're clearly not going to agree and throwing out ideas like removing stealth gives the impression you're not arguing with a clear head.

What class do you main that struggles so much with WHs/WEs? Maybe I can help there.