Just roll White lion Why bother (DPS)

[Kylashandra]

meme elite training.

The ability to share your elite training using your dark protector is actually really good, it's not a meme thing at all. You can use it to protect your buddy from some strong hits or punt+burst BW combo. The only thing - you are supposed to read the situation well and be fast with your skills.

I perfectly know how to use it thanks, but in days when some class (like the one being discussed by the OP of this topic) can dish out 4 to 6 attacks on you within a second, I'd rather have a fix 10% parry buff for me and my DP like the IB version.

[Avernus]

meme elite training.

The ability to share your elite training using your dark protector is actually really good, it's not a meme thing at all. You can use it to protect your buddy from some strong hits or punt+burst BW combo. The only thing - you are supposed to read the situation well and be fast with your skills.

I perfectly know how to use it thanks, but in days when some class (like the one being discussed by the OP of this topic) can dish out 4 to 6 attacks on you within a second, I'd rather have a fix 10% parry buff for me and my DP like the IB version.

Maybe. It really depends from the situation. No disrupt buff for IB though (no, wp buff doesn't count).

[Grranimal]

Mal!

That screenshot you posted was a nice set of crits. But without knowing the gear and class of your target, it's just cherry picked data. I know you have parses! Toss some up to be looked at!

[vanbuinen77]

Too lazy to go hit the target dummy.

[Shadizowblade]

Thats dumb and you diminish yourself by making a whine thread so any point you may have is gone.

WL is largely the same as it was on live EXCEPT for the pet which in itself is problematic due to things like AI, usefulness, micromanagement and all CC tied into it. Unlike the disposable pets of the SH this is supposed to be a permanent companion and given AOE spam damage making it survivable and useful is a tricky combination.

However the pet is clearly overtuned.

Loner spec WL (+25% player damage) pumps out damage appropriate for MDPs, hits hard, solid damage, no CC, no micromanaging (though I would suggest loner removing the CD on pounce myself to give it mobility so it has something) This should be the baseline for the WL class damage imo.

However with the pet out (based in my case), in trained to kill the pet has crazy high defenses which exceed that of a conq geared player, inherits nearly 500str, 200 WS and 27% crit rate which gives the combination of player+pet 15% more damage than loner spec WITHOUT the critical hit damage increase tactic while pet is active (Pack Synergy). With the Pack Synergy tactic slotted (its pretty obligatory) the damage rises to 30% over Loner spec so its basically a whole MDPS + 30% with the pet out.

Personally I would suggest cutting the pet damage in half and remove the CD on resummoning the pet, this would bring pet build to around Loner levels of damage but with the added benefit of CC. Thats just me though.

In my non scientific yet easily replicatable testing its overtuned off the pet, anyone rolling a WL to be king of the heap better get their jollies in now because it wont last, every dog has its day and the WL was sub optimal on live though still competitive.

Whine thread? and you're responding then WHY? They're all Valid points, the RAW DPS of classes doesn't exist i.e. "BURST" except for witch elf and witchhunter, but you're only going to see that real burst generated when NOT in a warbands or out solo roaming looking for small-scale fights. WARBANDS aren't supposed to die. Gear is fine in this game as it is, but coding real damage coefficients and modifiers into DPS melee skill queues combos or rotations, needs to be considered more than just :: "if you kill and Ironbreaker with 5+ Marauders and Choppas then it will eventually die." that's just braindead bad coefficient and damage algorithms assigned to generic skills. And quite franky boring to spam over and over and over.

[Farrul]

The title of this thread is kinda misleading, then some used it as an opportunity to complain about the WL in general, not really what the OP was saying.

It was about some of these destro classes (ranged dps) being overtuned in small scale and requiring a WL to counter them( which is true to some extent only). Hence why bother with any other mdps on order? No order mdps is going to stand a chance vs a hybrid shaman, except a WL.

Half a year ago when the WL pet was bugged( speed) the shamans were having a free reign on Order melee, once this got fixed, suddenly a lot of complain from the destros.

Hence i go back to say what i've been saying forever, these hybrid casters ( Arch mage, Shaman) are grossly overtuned in this game for random small scale fights, roaming point of view. Too much dps, too much sustain combined creates an unbalance vs other classes.

And Order melee has to deal with the Magus. Which is the single strongest solo roaming toon in this game.

A speedy WL is the only thing keeping the balance in this context. Otherwise these destros rdps are having a free reign. Hence the order is overfiilled with WL's roaming with a pet since it's the only counter to stop them from kiting everything melee in small scale to death.

Of course you could argue this game isn't balanced for 1vs1 or small scale, but this is the Point of view of the Topic.

[Ysaran]

The title of this thread is kinda misleading, then some used it as an opportunity to complain about the WL in general, not really what the OP was saying.

It was about some of these destro classes (ranged dps) being overtuned in small scale and requiring a WL to counter them( which is true to some extent only). Hence why bother with any other mdps on order? No order mdps is going to stand a chance vs a hybrid shaman, except a WL.

Half a year ago when the WL pet was bugged( speed) the shamans were having a free reign on Order melee, once this got fixed, suddenly a lot of complain from the destros.

Hence i go back to say what i've been saying forever, these hybrid casters ( Arch mage, Shaman) are grossly overtuned in this game for random small scale fights, roaming point of view. Too much dps, too much sustain combined creates an unbalance vs other classes.

And Order melee has to deal with the Magus. Which is the single strongest solo roaming toon in this game.

A speedy WL is the only thing keeping the balance in this context. Otherwise these destros rdps are having a free reign. Hence the order is overfiilled with WL's roaming with a pet since it's the only counter to stop them from kiting everything melee in small scale to death.

Of course you could argue this game isn't balanced for 1vs1 or small scale, but this is the Point of view of the Topic.

No, it is about WL being imbalances. Don't try to be misleading.

The OP even states that there is no point in playing ranged classes on destru because WL is too strong.

[tefnaht]

No, it is about WL being imbalances. Don't try to be misleading.

The OP even states that there is no point in playing ranged classes on destru because WL is too strong.

And if it so, why so many rSH around? Why engi-bw vs sorc-magus at the same popularity place around all dps classes? Who is hard counter on destro side for engi-bw? Anyone?

[Pahakukka]

I dont think there is, SH used to be, but there is less of them roaming around.

generally solo roaming and, i imagine smallscale in general is a lot easier with order now. Lions ate the gobbos and now you can play stuff like Asw (seen more of those around while ranking up the mara)

I can only imagine how fun the AAengi is at the moment

[Illuminati]

I dont think there is, SH used to be, but there is less of them roaming around.

generally solo roaming and, i imagine smallscale in general is a lot easier with order now. Lions ate the gobbos and now you can play stuff like Asw (seen more of those around while ranking up the mara)

I can only imagine how fun the AAengi is at the moment

As others noted, and a nod the OP's title, if you're on Order you see a wider range of classes on Destro that roam (from S to C tier). However, if you're on Destro, you typically only see the S tier classes (AM, WH, and some WL-Guardian). It's really hard to solo roam due to the zerg-blob play so for the most.

I tried running around on a BIS rSH for a few weeks after converting to ranged from MSH and would get killed by WHs (I expected that), AMs (would win some/lose some), and WLs (their mobility kit and the pet made it impossible to deal with - basically pull/kd auto-attack would kill me 100% of the time). I do see some Engi's try to setup but they get run over by blobs.