Grimmshimmer and fleshrenders

[Farrul]

Okay, well regen on tanks is actually something I understand and as you mentioned quite a few of the wl/sov gear pieces have regen in them. Not sure what the exact amount is you can get with just sov+wl but I'm sure its quite a bit. But that again kinda is what I'm talking about. You can use actual end game gear with regen as a tank instead of some gimmick cr36 blue chest..

From off sov+ wl+ pocket regen it is 264 then add a fleshrender for the 300.

I have to admit i've used the grimmshimmer quite a bit on my tanks, but mostly with bad low level gear or a very special SM build dedicated exclusively to 1vsx session with a certain group of witch elves. i feel it was justified in that situation. .

But as the OP mentioned, ''deftard'' can be frustrating and i agree with him not fun generally, hence for the dishonorable stackers of regen( regen lini is a clear warning sign) i wouldn't feel bad about nerfing their beloved item. Indeed a tank has got all the regen it needs from BIS gear.

I could even agree to removing the ''sentinel'' regen talisman from the game and the liniment.

[nocturnalguest]

Thing is that balancing points 1 to 3 here would mean it affects all the gameplay most likely and we all (or atleast most) know that balance shouldn't be done for solo gameplay. Where as balancing the regen items would mainly if not solely affect solo play.

I mentioned my point earlier that bigger issue to me when it comes to regen is the fact that there is nothing you can really do about it, since heal debuffs dont affect it and in general its just weird for me to see that sov people are using some 36 blues as part of their "bis" set.

I guess you could argue that having these "gimmick" items make the gearing more interesting than just following a "strick" gearing route or it creates more options for end game gear than just everyone using 5 sov and 4 tri.

I feel like this is a topic where people can and will have very different opinions regarding the regen items and how it would be best. And ofcourse the fact that some people just say that its solo stuff so it doesn't matter.

Yes its harder to balance 1 to 3. But, again, regen on its own, on items, anywhere else is irrelevant on its own. Thats a fact. Only builds on top of it make it cancer. And its those builds are badly designed/used to the fullest for things to work so well.
Also few more points, you mention slayer and video clips. But if you go thru https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... oOnly=true, pick worthy opponents and look details and feuds on fights you will see that its negative feuds against them. This cant be concluded as being "working" strategy/build/whatever. So by terms of pure effeciency his slayer is not working. Doesnt stop the lad to have mighty fun and also none can accuse him for whining or ranting, quite the opposite he keeps things as positive in public as its possible. That is respectful.

Also 1 to 3 points indeed will change the whole gameplay as those are pretty niche on some classes and that has to be done anyways. Considering they have to be balanced for main scope of balancing (orvr, group play) it doesnt anyhow exclude options to tweak abominations for 1vX gameplay. Tanks and healers phase has been done more or less fine, some mistakes are made (e.g. shield healers kinda lost purpose, but i believe general design is correct, other tweaks may fix it afterwards) but nothing crucial (beside unification phylosophy, but thats whole different story). What is most important is how DPS rework will look like. If focus will be to improving their performance and overhauling their builds&mechanics, i see no issues for solo specs to be reworked. Im positive in that regards, cause they cut out outliners, and some things for solo roam are clear outliners and highely likely will be affected.

Also, one last part

when it comes to regen is the fact that there is nothing you can really do about it

This is simply not true. You can look up my previous post. Main regen is WE and ive said already what beats it. Also overally the correct claim in RPS logic is "burst" beats "regen". Thats further proven by a fact that some builds/classes/solo roamers can spend ~8-9k dmg into killing full deftard WE, this means they just demolish it, almost instantly (mechanically almost after one quick or regen pot or catching it up with pots on CD).
Originally viewtopic.php?t=59520&start=20#p584265
And in this thread viewtopic.php?t=59508&start=40#p584610

I also DM to Pahakukka exact killboard links on which i based my points, can send you too if you are that interested in enlightning

[Stinksuit]

Thing is that balancing points 1 to 3 here would mean it affects all the gameplay most likely and we all (or atleast most) know that balance shouldn't be done for solo gameplay. Where as balancing the regen items would mainly if not solely affect solo play.

I mentioned my point earlier that bigger issue to me when it comes to regen is the fact that there is nothing you can really do about it, since heal debuffs dont affect it and in general its just weird for me to see that sov people are using some 36 blues as part of their "bis" set.

I guess you could argue that having these "gimmick" items make the gearing more interesting than just following a "strick" gearing route or it creates more options for end game gear than just everyone using 5 sov and 4 tri.

I feel like this is a topic where people can and will have very different opinions regarding the regen items and how it would be best. And ofcourse the fact that some people just say that its solo stuff so it doesn't matter.

Yes its harder to balance 1 to 3. But, again, regen on its own, on items, anywhere else is irrelevant on its own. Thats a fact. Builds on top of it make it cancer.
Also few more points, you mention slayer and video clips. But if you go thru https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... oOnly=true, pick worthy opponents and look details and feuds on fights you will see that its negative feuds against them. This cant be concluded as being "working" strategy/build/whatever. So by terms of pure effeciency his slayer is not working. Doesnt stop the lad to have mighty fun and also none can accuse him for whining or ranting, quite the opposite he keeps things as positive in public as its possible. That is respectful.

Also 1 to 3 points indeed will change the whole gameplay as those are pretty niche on some classes and that has to be done anyways. Considering they have to be balanced for main scope of balancing (orvr, group play) it doesnt anyhow exclude options to tweak abominations for 1vX gameplay. Tanks and healers phase has been done more or less fine, some mistakes are made (e.g. shield healers kinda lost purpose, but i believe general design is correct, other tweaks may fix it afterwards) but nothing crucial. What is most important is how DPS rework will look like. If focus will be to improving their performance and overhauling their builds&mechanics, i see no issues for solo specs to be reworked. Im positive in that regards, cause they cut out outliners, and some things for solo roam are clear outliners and highely likely will be affected.

Also, one last part

when it comes to regen is the fact that there is nothing you can really do about it

This is simply not true. You can look up my previous post. Main regen is WE and ive said already what beats it. Also overally the correct claim in RPS logic is "burst" beats "regen"
Originally viewtopic.php?t=59520&start=20#p584265
And in this thread viewtopic.php?t=59508&start=40#p584610

I also DM to Pahakukka exact killboard links on which i based my points

Hopefully I dont miss anything but,
Efficiency via kd ratio is one thing but then again also just looking at "are you able to kill something" is another. Dying doesnt make you lose anything, where as killing gives you renown and crests.

Im also really excited about the dps patch since we got (atleast to me) quite nice things for tanks and healers in their own patches. And I have no doubt we are going to get something that will affect all game modes from solo to zerg gameplay in the upcoming dps patch.

To elaborate on my previous sentence about "when it comes to regen is the fact that there is nothing you can really do about it". I meant it in a way that its just there passively ticking regardless what the player does. Like how you can counter heals with heal debuffs and life leech with absorbs and detaunts etc.

[nocturnalguest]

Hopefully I dont miss anything but,
Efficiency via kd ratio is one thing but then again also just looking at "are you able to kill something" is another. Dying doesnt make you lose anything, where as killing gives you renown and crests.

Im also really excited about the dps patch since we got (atleast to me) quite nice things for tanks and healers in their own patches. And I have no doubt we are going to get something that will affect all game modes from solo to zerg gameplay in the upcoming dps patch.

To elaborate on my previous sentence about "when it comes to regen is the fact that there is nothing you can really do about it". I meant it in a way that its just there passively ticking regardless what the player does. Like how you can counter heals with heal debuffs and life leech with absorbs and detaunts etc.

Thanks for clarifying. I kinda missunderstood. Yes, in that logic regen has only one counter which is not that obvious and much harder to pull off - the burst. And this is pretty debatable too. I get it.

Add: and in this regards thats indeed can be considered as not fair, first, your class should be able to produce burst (and that burst should be spiked to outsync sustain), second, you should have GCD management to time it well (or else it will be outsustained by sustain) thus amount of efforts put into counter outweight other RPS elements that require less from player

[Illuminati]

The reality is, every player has solo experiences either running back from a respawn, running to a keep to meet teammates, or going to help their faction, etc.

That player has a right to survive the countless dot stacking dps-healers, gankers, etc. that would wreck these players otherwise.

Let's also talk facts about how this gear performs...

1. 300 hp / 4 secs isn't game breaking. It gives you some relief to react on the long GCD the game has deployed so you don't become susceptible to execution abilities which enable when you are below 30% health.
2. A regen spec'd Tank will beat a regen spec'd melee DPS most of the time.
3. A regen spec'd DPS may beat a non-regen spec'd Tank some/most of the time.
4. A dps-healer will beat a regen spec'd melee DPS or Tank most of the time.
5. There is no amount of regen you can spec to out heal a properly spec'd DPS-AM/Sham

We are focusing on the wrong itemization problems of the game with this thread. It's not even in the top 50 problems the current version of ROR has...

[crystl32]

The reality is, every player has solo experiences either running back from a respawn, running to a keep to meet teammates, or going to help their faction, etc.

That player has a right to survive the countless dot stacking dps-healers, gankers, etc. that would wreck these players otherwise.

Let's also talk facts about how this gear performs...

1. 300 hp / 4 secs isn't game breaking. It gives you some relief to react on the long GCD the game has deployed so you don't become susceptible to execution abilities which enable when you are below 30% health.
2. A regen spec'd Tank will beat a regen spec'd melee DPS most of the time.
3. A regen spec'd DPS may beat a non-regen spec'd Tank some/most of the time.
4. A dps-healer will beat a regen spec'd melee DPS or Tank most of the time.
5. There is no amount of regen you can spec to out heal a properly spec'd DPS-AM/Sham

We are focusing on the wrong itemization problems of the game with this thread. It's not even in the top 50 problems the current version of ROR has...

most of the time means what exactly?
and depends on what exactly?

[Illuminati]

Most of the time = if players of equal skill

[Panzer80]

Nothing is OP if everyone has access to it. DPS healers do a lot of healing to themselves, even with a heal debuff. Tanks have many innate healing passives. These kinds of builds work on any class to varying degrees. A SW can use a few regen pieces to keep from dying to dagger throws from WE's and they can have longer kiteing than normal. On melee dps classes these defense builds are basically anti-melee builds. Meaning they kill melee dps very well but are trash against ranged or heals. The only complaints about this stuff are from people who lose a fight to a better spec than what they have themselves. These types of complaints are no different than the ones saying something killed me really fast and its OP. However, I do think that going "glass cannon" needs to be more viable. I'd like to see some hyper damage possibilities with the new dps changes. Stuff that makes you hit significantly harder, but only at great risk (say like when you have < 25% hp for example. Also, some of us really like to fight 2 v 1, or 3 v 1. Who could complain about that? Other than the ones who lost...

1. 300 hp / 4 secs isn't game breaking. It gives you some relief to react on the long GCD the game has deployed so you don't become susceptible to execution abilities which enable when you are below 30% health.
2. A regen spec'd Tank will beat a regen spec'd melee DPS most of the time.
3. A regen spec'd DPS may beat a non-regen spec'd Tank some/most of the time.
4. A dps-healer will beat a regen spec'd melee DPS or Tank most of the time.
5. There is no amount of regen you can spec to out heal a properly spec'd DPS-AM/Sham

We are focusing on the wrong itemization problems of the game with this thread. It's not even in the top 50 problems the current version of ROR has...

Correct.