Return of Reckoning

Ways to Discourage PvDoor and Encourage ORvR

On a thread I created recently,(http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... =15&t=9071) we discussed the ways to encourage minority realms to engage in ORvR and provide incentive to do so as a means to discourage PvDoor and combat one realms zerg from becoming to mammoth. One thing that must be made abundantly clear is that this is not meant to be a means to make defense the primary means of gaining the rewards but rather as an incentive for minority realms to defend. The attacking realm should always gain higher yields from capturing a zone than the defending realm for losing the zone.

Proposal

- While actively defending a keep, players defending earn humble, flat, and pulsing rewards of experience, influence, and renown (no medallions). The longer the siege the frequency of pulsing rewards increases. Possibly requiring a specified number of defending players to be present in order for this to occur. Perhaps the number of defending players needs to be equal to what the assaulting realm needs in order to gain medallions from capturing a keep, such as twelve.

- Keep defense ticks yield a minimum of one medallion, in addition to a scaling experience and renown point reward for how heavily the keep was attacked. Medallion rewards will scale but only on a proportional basis in comparison to what the capture ick would be, due to intermittent defense ticks. A defense tick will never be as large as a “capture” tick would have been for that particular siege. (There were other ways created to provide means of supplementing the medallion reward but I felt this one best fit our intentions and would decrease the chances of people abusing the system. Below I will provide the other proposed ideas for medallion rewards)

- Introducing more frequent ORvR based live events. I would consider this tertiary and suggest it be added on with the proposed changes, however, not as a sole means of fixing the situation.

I, and others who voiced their opinions, believe this would be an agreeable means to encourage ORvR for minority realms when overwhelmed by monstrous zergs and decrease the occurrence of PvDoor for the zerging realm.
Any critiques or additions would be appreciated, as well as any input the RoR Staff might have regarding the matter.
Please keep your responses on topic and any ideas proposed be actual ideas rather than, as I stated in my previous post, suggesting the way to fix it is for the minority realm to just join guilds, group up, and change their attitude. Clearly with that already at people disposal if it were that easy to fix the problem there would not be one.

Alternate Methods Proposed to Reward Medallions to Defenders

- A moderate medallion rewards are introduced for defending a keep. A means to introduce the reward could either be done once x minutes have passed of no combat on the keep; or the current keep defense kill quest could be used as a means of supplying the defender with their reward upon completion. (Obviously the issue of the keep defense kills counter working outside of defending the specified keep would need to be addressed; or another means of supplying the defender their reward implemented.)

TL;DR

- Defending keeps provide moderate, flat, pulsing reward of experience, influence and renown scaling in accordance to the size of invading force. The longer the siege the more frequent the pulses become.

- Keep defense ticks yield minimum of one medallion and scaling experience, influence, and renown rewards for defending. All keep defense tick rewards will never be greater than an actual keep capture.

- More ORvR based live events

- Keep responses on topic, polite, and propose actual ideas instead of suggesting things such as stating the minority realm just needs to join (larger) guilds, group up more, and change their attitude.

(Thanks to, Halhammer, Abolition, bwdaWAR, Nishka, and everyone else who contributed to forming these ideas)

1-first thing first put a 2 chain repeateable quest which the first need a kepp take and the second is kill (only second reward meddalions)
2- 1 meddalion for when each door close (or if ppl exept a exploit on this) 1 meddalion each times keep stop being under attack(but even this can be exploited even indirectly).
3-alternatively kill around keep have 100% chance to grant meddalions.
4- rewamp the rvr system meccanic and make more relevant def t2-t3 keep which is not atm. (actually have loose or take a keep matter regard something that is not renow or exp)

Can't speak for others, but our group stopped orvr mostly because of how useless meeles are at keep takes, and that you get pulled into the zerg, which makes successful kiting near to impossible.

Another problem for small groups in orvr are the missing back doors.

Some reasons why we are mostly playing scs right now.

Tesq wrote:1-first thing first put a 2 chain repeateable quest which the first need a kepp take and the second is kill (only second reward meddalions)
2- 1 meddalion for when each door close (or if ppl exept a exploit on this) 1 meddalion each times keep stop being under attack(but even this can be exploited even indirectly).
3-alternatively kill around keep have 100% chance to grant meddalions.
4- rewamp the rvr system meccanic and make more relevant def t2-t3 keep which is not atm. (actually have loose or take a keep matter regard something that is not renow or exp)

Having to take a keep in order to get a quest that allows you to get a reward for defending a keep? It doesn't make sense. So once I turn it in I have to take another keep in order to repeat it? Sometimes that just simply is not possible and IMO over complicates things and just further throws medallions at people (under your proposed system that is).

Your ideas are just THROWING medallions at defending realm.

Under your proposed system on a successful keep defense assuming we stop them from killing keep lord with inner door down. I will get 2 medallions when the doors respawn, x medallions (for fun lets just say 1) for the quest, 100% medallion drop around keep will grant god knows how many (but once again lets say you only win 1). That is 4 already assuming you ONLY win 1 medallion for defending a keep with a 100% guaranteed drop rate of medallions. And if you are meaning to add that onto what was proposed already you are already looking at a minimum of earning 6 medallions which, if I am correct, is already the maximum the invading realm can earn.

100% medallion drop rate is definitely asking for an exploit. The needed to take a keep for the quest is nice but what happens when your zone cant take a keep because of hard zerging?

Your 4th proposal addresses an issue but does not provide a means to resolve the issue. My post addressed that issue. What do you have to say about the proposed changes or what ideas of your own do you have on how to fix it.

tomato wrote:Can't speak for others, but our group stopped orvr mostly because of how useless meeles are at keep takes, and that you get pulled into the zerg, which makes successful kiting near to impossible.

Another problem for small groups in orvr are the missing back doors.

Some reasons why we are mostly playing scs right now.

I agree melee is pretty useless besides throwing yourself at the door until it is down. Working posterns, siege weaponry, and functioning pick lock ability would help. We were trying to focus on what could be done to improve the system with what we have implemented currently.

boog wrote:

Tesq wrote:1-first thing first put a 2 chain repeateable quest which the first need a kepp take and the second is kill (only second reward meddalions)
2- 1 meddalion for when each door close (or if ppl exept a exploit on this) 1 meddalion each times keep stop being under attack(but even this can be exploited even indirectly).
3-alternatively kill around keep have 100% chance to grant meddalions.
4- rewamp the rvr system meccanic and make more relevant def t2-t3 keep which is not atm. (actually have loose or take a keep matter regard something that is not renow or exp)

Having to take a keep in order to get a quest that allows you to get a reward for defending a keep? It doesn't make sense. So once I turn it in I have to take another keep in order to repeat it? Sometimes that just simply is not possible and IMO over complicates things and just further throws medallions at people (under your proposed system that is).

Your ideas are just THROWING medallions at defending realm.

Under your proposed system on a successful keep defense assuming we stop them from killing keep lord with inner door down. I will get 2 medallions when the doors respawn, x medallions (for fun lets just say 1) for the quest, 100% medallion drop around keep will grant god knows how many (but once again lets say you only win 1). That is 4 already assuming you ONLY win 1 medallion for defending a keep with a 100% guaranteed drop rate of medallions. And if you are meaning to add that onto what was proposed already you are already looking at a minimum of earning 6 medallions which, if I am correct, is already the maximum the invading realm can earn.

100% medallion drop rate is definitely asking for an exploit. The needed to take a keep for the quest is nice but what happens when your zone cant take a keep because of hard zerging?

Your 4th proposal addresses an issue but does not provide a means to resolve the issue. My post addressed that issue. What do you have to say about the proposed changes or what ideas of your own do you have on how to fix it.

em no

1 quest = take keep -->give recive exp/money
2 quest = make x ---> kills recive emp/money /meddalions

=== you cannot only def this way you need to take keep also so ppl maybe will find itself with someone that need kills and someone that need take a keep. Either way this do not encourage lame def farm wich penril pointed out in other posts but also not allow you to just do only sc.

HOW this encourage def?

simple low mind peoples if you want take a keep you need first to def your.... Unless you wanna leave that faction zerg keep after keep and also sc after sc and you never have the chances to take one by you.

the only difference by currently system it's that before the kill quest you need to capture a keep and this make population shift towards rvr rather then sc.

Tesq wrote:

boog wrote:

Tesq wrote:1-first thing first put a 2 chain repeateable quest which the first need a kepp take and the second is kill (only second reward meddalions)
2- 1 meddalion for when each door close (or if ppl exept a exploit on this) 1 meddalion each times keep stop being under attack(but even this can be exploited even indirectly).
3-alternatively kill around keep have 100% chance to grant meddalions.
4- rewamp the rvr system meccanic and make more relevant def t2-t3 keep which is not atm. (actually have loose or take a keep matter regard something that is not renow or exp)

Having to take a keep in order to get a quest that allows you to get a reward for defending a keep? It doesn't make sense. So once I turn it in I have to take another keep in order to repeat it? Sometimes that just simply is not possible and IMO over complicates things and just further throws medallions at people (under your proposed system that is).

Your ideas are just THROWING medallions at defending realm.

Under your proposed system on a successful keep defense assuming we stop them from killing keep lord with inner door down. I will get 2 medallions when the doors respawn, x medallions (for fun lets just say 1) for the quest, 100% medallion drop around keep will grant god knows how many (but once again lets say you only win 1). That is 4 already assuming you ONLY win 1 medallion for defending a keep with a 100% guaranteed drop rate of medallions. And if you are meaning to add that onto what was proposed already you are already looking at a minimum of earning 6 medallions which, if I am correct, is already the maximum the invading realm can earn.

100% medallion drop rate is definitely asking for an exploit. The needed to take a keep for the quest is nice but what happens when your zone cant take a keep because of hard zerging?

Your 4th proposal addresses an issue but does not provide a means to resolve the issue. My post addressed that issue. What do you have to say about the proposed changes or what ideas of your own do you have on how to fix it.

em no

1 quest = take keep -->give recive exp/money
2 quest = make x ---> kills recive emp/money /meddalions

=== you cannot only def this way you need to take keep also so ppl maybe will find itself with someone that need kills and someone that need take a keep. Either way this do not encourage lame def farm wich penril pointed out in other posts but also not allow you to just do only sc.

HOW this encourage def?

simple low mind peoples if you want take a keep you need fiorst to def your....

the only difference by currently system it's that before the kill quest you need to capture a keep and this make population shift towards rvr rather then sc.

I am having difficulties understanding what you said. I understand how your quest idea works. What I am saying is that is not a good system to give people medallions. It seems unnecessary.

If you want to take a keep you need to defend yours first? That doesn't make sense. When your realm is dominating you don't sit and defend your keep to then go attack the enemies. Adversely, when you realm is being dominated you are forced to defend your keep. Chances are you are not going to be able to take a keep because you are being zerged harder.

Adding a quest such as you proposed wont fix anything it will just be adding another quest for people to do and eventually turn in once the zerging conditions are right to allow them to complete the objectives.

I am starting to think you did not even read the proposed system that I posted and instead just immediately went to posting your own ideas about what needs to be done. Which is fine and everything, but I would also like some feedback on what you think about the proposed system that is the topic of this thread. If you would like to discuss your ideas I am more than happy to but perhaps you could explain to me why it is you think the proposed fixes that are the topic of this thread are inferior to your system.

i red it and i alredy pointed out as penril said and i also said alredy that it's k give ppl incetive to def but not make def reward better than offence, give better rewards to defenders (cos is easier def than take a keep) just transform everything in a def farm-fest.

Zerg vs zerg situation where 1 faction avoid to attack and deliberately farm in def. You just solve 1 problem to xreate another one.

my proposal shift back the attention to keep take if you want meddalions, so this mean when a faction is zerging AND you need a keep for unlock kill quest you start by build wb , def then when they are pushed back or change zone you start attacks etc, when both realms want to take a keep for unlock meddalions quest some one at disadvantage need to def for ghater time and so defense occure this way.

You just deliberatly push for farm def in other ways (and it's a fact cos we all saw it during war history; even more during 1.4.8 due the lotd back currency farm....i have still the screen of those 40k currency jesus....)

Tesq wrote:i red it and i alredy pointed out as penril said and i also said alredy that it's k give ppl incetive to def but not make def reward better than offence, give better rewards to defenders (cos is easier def than take a keep) just transform everything in a def farm-fest.

You clearly didn't read, I know this partial because Penril has not commented on either of my threads I created about this topic. I will point out these statements from my initial post regarding giving better rewards to defenders, which I adamantly stated was not to happen.

Boog wrote: One thing that must be made abundantly clear is that this is not meant to be a means to make defense the primary means of gaining the rewards but rather as an incentive for minority realms to defend. The attacking realm should always gain higher yields from capturing a zone than the defending realm for losing the zone.

Boog wrote: Medallion rewards will scale but only on a proportional basis in comparison to what the capture ick would be, due to intermittent defense ticks. A defense tick will never be as large as a “capture” tick would have been for that particular siege.

Tesq wrote:
Zerg vs zerg situation where 1 faction avoid to attack and deliberately farm in def. You just solve 1 problem to xreate another one.

How so? Since I just showed you with my own words I do not want defending to be yield more rewards then attacking how did I create the mirror effect of the initial problem?

Tesq wrote: my proposal shift back the attention to keep take if you want meddalions, so this mean when a faction is zerging AND you need a keep for unlock kill quest you start by build wb , def then when they are pushed back or change zone you start attacks etc, when both realms want to take a keep for unlock meddalions quest some one at disadvantage need to def for ghater time and so defense occure this way.

This was not and never was about medallions or adverting people from taking keeps. This was about creating incentive to for defending realms to actually defend. If you are forming a wb for zerging and your realm is the majority realm you are saying you need to bait the losing minority realm to attack your keep just to defend it in order to progress in the quest. The fact that you don't see the flaw in that worries me. The rest of your sentence after "unlock meddalions" is jibberish to me.

Tesq wrote: You just deliberatly push for farm def in other ways (and it's a fact cos we all saw it during war history; even more during 1.4.8 due the lotd back currency farm....i have still the screen of those 40k currency jesus....)

I don't even know what point you are trying to make with this statement.

What my proposed plan DOES do, is provide incentive for defense while not making defense easily exploitable or the easiest means to farm rewards. The invading realm, upon a successful keep take, will always gain more than the defending realm would have gained if they had been successful with their defense.

Your quest line of

1. Capture Keep (Reward: EXP, Gold)
2. Defend Keep (Reward: EXP, Gold, Medallions)

makes no sense. So the dominating realm is suppose to capture a keep and lock a zone, then in the very next zone they go to capture let the minority realm capture objectives and attack a keep just to let the dominant realm wipe them to progress their quest for medallions. Do you know what I would do if I were the minority realm? I just wouldn't go into the lakes or capture BO's because it is only going to help the enemy gain medallions. Much like how people don't defend keeps now because if they lose the invading realm gets medallions and gets better gear.

I really do not think you have read this post, at all.

Regardless we need a better method of getting more medals because the drop rate atm is TOO low, I've spend 8 hours in sc and RVR over 2 days and only got 4 medals. It sucks.