Return of Reckoning

Issue

As it stands currently, when the zerg for either realm is to numerous ORvR ceases to exist and becomes, Player vs Door or Doorhammer Online. Typically, Doorhammer continues until either it gets too late for the zerging side and inevitably falls apart OR the zerg is met with opposition and the zerg riders leave because it isn’t easy and then there is a small blip in time where the two factions are actually engaged in PvP with one another for a short period of time before the inevitable zerg reforming for whichever is the dominant side. We have all seen this happen numerous times.
So what happens when the zerg is to powerful? People go PvE, craft, possibly scenarios, they can’t ORvR so what is the point? The zerg is to numerous. So if they can’t ORvR on the toon they wanted to play, why not hop on the zerging realm and get some rewards for at least one of their toons.

Proposal

I propose that pity ticks / rewards be introduced to the losing realm when losing a zone. I believe doing so will help prevent PvDoor as well as deter x realming much like it did in WAR live (though I know it was not the only factor that prevented that). Pity tick for losing realm in ORvR (50% or less of what winning realm earns). Provide x number of medallions to members of losing realm ONLY IF they defend their keep, so long as that number is 12 or more.

Common Arguments

The common retort that I have been greeted with when pointing this out is that people need to change their attitude, pity ticks isn’t the answer it will just give free hand outs, people need to just form a group and fight it anyways. All beautiful ideas except one thing. They aren’t practical. When there is an issue with the game resolution to it is not, well the people playing just need to change their attitude. I usually run with friends while I play and I admit when you have friends to play with going against the zerg isn’t terrible. However, what about the people who either doesn’t have time to wait for their friends to log on or just don’t have any in game. I have tried forming groups with stranger for the purpose of ORvR or eve n tried to form a zerg of my own. When the zerg is going strong for the opposing realm I get little to no responses. Adversly, when the zerg is not dominating by the opposing realm, more people respond to grouping.

So what would a pity tick provide? Some (50% or less of what the winning relam earns) exp, renown, and influence for the losing realm. You eventually get enough people from the opposing realm just riding the pity ticks you start to see that there is a decent number of people. If two groups or more are able to be formed to defend a keep maybe instead of when losing they are given 1 medallion for bothering to put up a fight. The response I get for that is it is not fair because they will AAO farm and get more rewards than the winning realm. And yeah that COULD happen; that also could happen regularly just with AAO. Would you seriously throw out an idea of encouraging ORvR and helping people progress their characters just because there is a CHANCE that they as the minority realm might earn more than the majority? Sorry but that is called incentive which encourages people to do things. More people in the ORvR field on the minority realm means less chance of PvDoor and the more of the minority realm in the lakes trying to take advantage of AAO means less AAO for minority realm which brings balanced fighting.

TL;DR

Pity tick for losing realm in ORvR (50% or less of what winning realm earns).

Provide x number of medallions to members of losing realm ONLY IF they defend their keep, so long as that number is 12 or more.

Doing so provides incentive for minority realm to take part in ORvR when zerg is too powerful with dominant realm and helps prevent stagnation.

Rewards and incentive to play losing faction would defer people from x-realming to majority realm and encourage ORvR which would cause less PvDoor.

WAR live had (pretty sure always did or at least for a majority of its lifespan) pity ticks for the losing realm.

I totally agree with you! Fantastic proposal

I totally agree with you! Fantastic proposal

You really want how it was towards the end on live ? where ppl would rather afk at the wc waiting for freebies instead of fighting, no ty.

Morf wrote:You really want how it was towards the end on live ? where ppl would rather afk at the wc waiting for freebies instead of fighting, no ty.

How is that any worse than having dead ORvR lakes? If enough people are there and they go, hey, there is like 3 groups of ppl here; maybe I should form a warband. It at least promotes ORvR to occur rather than zergs PvDooring all night.

As it stands right now, if there are not enough people to prevent the dominant realm from taking the zone people will not bother defending the keeps because it gives the enemy realm medallions. That is deterring people from ORvR.

Morf wrote:You really want how it was towards the end on live ? where ppl would rather afk at the wc waiting for freebies instead of fighting, no ty.

I also don't see exactly who that hurts. It already happens to the majority realm when they win the zone. People always come to zones for a tick if their realm is about to claim one.

Adversely if a realm is losing continuously why bother to check on the lakes? And how does it hurt the majority realm if the losing minority realm still earns renown? It allows the minority realm to still progress their characters in both rank, renown rank, and gear progression just at a much slower rate than the majority realm (through traditional means). It is like saying you are wanting to keep the impoverished impoverished. I played Order in live on Badlands and frequently, but not always, we were the underdogs and were always on the defensive to the Destro zerg. However, having the pity ticks and means of getting resources necessary to progress my character encouraged me to continue playing Order and not jump ship and just ride the Destro zerg as a means to progress.

If the current system stays what will happen is there will be a realm with a majority of its players having far superior gear and more points able to spend in renown, increasing stats further giving them the upper hand over the other realm. The pity system allows for the underdog realm to progress, albeit slower, but still allows progression.

This current system only allows progression for a realm when they are zerging.

Please guys join some guilds, form some groups. Then change the lakes yourselves. Progression for losing? lolwut?

boog wrote:

Morf wrote:You really want how it was towards the end on live ? where ppl would rather afk at the wc waiting for freebies instead of fighting, no ty.

How is that any worse than having dead ORvR lakes? If enough people are there and they go, hey, there is like 3 groups of ppl here; maybe I should form a warband. It at least promotes ORvR to occur rather than zergs PvDooring all night.

As it stands right now, if there are not enough people to prevent the dominant realm from taking the zone people will not bother defending the keeps because it gives the enemy realm medallions. That is deterring people from ORvR.

Its worse because it promotes ppl not to fight. Many times on live a city push would happen and the realm that took the final keep would have aao because of all the players who instead of fighting decided to just afk for freebies.
When a realm is heavily outnumbered no change in rvr mechanics will stop the zerg getting the job done, if you are outnumbered dont mindlessly keep fighting, use tactics, fight at transit points away from the zerg. Most the time you can get more rewards killing straglers/players traveling to the keep then you would get taking the keep undefended.

we need pitty steals not rewards when losing the realm ^^

Morf wrote:

boog wrote:

Morf wrote:You really want how it was towards the end on live ? where ppl would rather afk at the wc waiting for freebies instead of fighting, no ty.

How is that any worse than having dead ORvR lakes? If enough people are there and they go, hey, there is like 3 groups of ppl here; maybe I should form a warband. It at least promotes ORvR to occur rather than zergs PvDooring all night.

As it stands right now, if there are not enough people to prevent the dominant realm from taking the zone people will not bother defending the keeps because it gives the enemy realm medallions. That is deterring people from ORvR.

Its worse because it promotes ppl not to fight. Many times on live a city push would happen and the realm that took the final keep would have aao because of all the players who instead of fighting decided to just afk for freebies.
When a realm is heavily outnumbered no change in rvr mechanics will stop the zerg getting the job done, if you are outnumbered dont mindlessly keep fighting, use tactics, fight at transit points away from the zerg. Most the time you can get more rewards killing straglers/players traveling to the keep then you would get taking the keep undefended.

Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from. I would much rather people when being zerged rally together and use tactical maneuvering to overcome the odds. However, clearly that is not happening and just saying that is what people need to do doesn't fix anything. I'll revert you back to my statement where I said when there is an issue with the game that attitude to combat it is not to just say the players need to change their attitude.

I recall playing on WAR live and having the pity ticks and people riding them caused warbands to form and caused fighting. As I said earlier, as it stands right now if one realm is zerging harder than the other and dominating people don't bother to go to the lakes. if they don't even bother to go to the lakes how is fighting ever going to happen?

Zanilos wrote:Please guys join some guilds, form some groups. Then change the lakes yourselves. Progression for losing? lolwut?

You are saying this and I agree that could help. But you are once again telling players they need to change their attitude about the situation. Last time I checked Dev's cant introduce an update that changes peoples attitudes towards the game to make the current system work as you intend. How do you change it if you are either in a small guild or in a guild that doesn't want to fight the zerg and lose? How do you form a group to fight the zerg when people don't want to form groups to fight the zerg? How do change the lakes when no one else wants to because there is no incentive when going against a monstrous zerg?

If a realm is constantly losing how do you expect them to progress when with each victory the winning realm only gets stronger while they remain the same?

Can people make suggestions other than people need to change their attitude to address the problem?