Return of Reckoning

Greetings,

first off let me summarize some information about myself. I did play WAR:AoR on live servers and enjoyed it, but I also acknowledged many of its flaws and in the end stopped playing the game because I couldn't cope with them. So the information that Return of Reckoning is an actual private server of the good old Warhammer made me curious about how well its going and what the actual goal of this project was.
The "about" link at the top of page didn't clear every question I had so I am posting this now.

Let me thank you for trying to recreate the wonderful world of Warhammer by starting this project. I love the lore and art of this game so much, that I think it would be played to this day if EA Mythic didn't **** up some major things on live servers.

Second I would like to know how the team behind this project thinks of its legality, don't you guys fear that this project could become "succesfull" to some degree so it catches the attention of the "right owners"? The option to download the client on this site tells me that it is not a high priority to stay away from illegality for the team behind this project?

Third, what are the actual goals of the development. As I played just for a few hours yet I've stumbled upon things which are different than they were on live servers, some of them on purpose, some because they are "bugged". Is the RoR-Team trying to just recreate what Mythic tried to achieve, or is there something more? Like altering the actual experience?

Fourth, how is the project scheduled, are there some kind of milestones? For me as a new player its unclear why there is only tier 1 and 2 available. Because many things in tier 1 don't work, even most basic stuff like public quests etc. So the actual direction is not really clear and I would love to hear more about the people in charge, what their vision of this project is.

So as you can see, I am pretty curious about this whole project. I think that more communication and transpareny on the terms of development and goals would help tremendously. I know that some or all of my questions might be already answered in the depths of this forum or elsewhere, but my critique is excatly about the missing information on the actual homepage of this project. More information about the intentions would also greatly help in getting more people to work on this awesome project. I for myself would love to help you guys in any way possible to make this game what it deserved to be.

I got a bachelor degree in Business Administration and would like to offer my knowledge and skills for whatever might help.

I am fairly new to the dev team, and so while I can't speak officially, I can speak more officially than most.

samurro wrote:Second I would like to know how the team behind this project thinks of its legality, don't you guys fear that this project could become "succesfull" to some degree so it catches the attention of the "right owners"? The option to download the client on this site tells me that it is not a high priority to stay away from illegality for the team behind this project?

It's legal in the same sense that Super Nintendo emulators and ROMs are legal. It's legal in the same sense that modifying your X-Box to play pirated games is legal. Which is to say, in the absolute strictest sense, it is not entirely legal, but nobody is going to come after us because it would be worse PR than letting us continue to generate interest in their IP for free. That being said, Nobody is generating any profit off of RoR - in fact, the whole game is provided at the personal expense of management. So long as we continue to do so, there is minimal chance of intervention on behalf of EA or GW.

samurro wrote:Third, what are the actual goals of the development. As I played just for a few hours yet I've stumbled upon things which are different than they were on live servers, some of them on purpose, some because they are "bugged". Is the RoR-Team trying to just recreate what Mythic tried to achieve, or is there something more? Like altering the actual experience?

The first order of business is to get the RvR system working and fully functional through T4. From there, we can branch out into other things. PvE content is a low priority, because it was never a popular aspect of WAR/Live. Dungeons were almost never run (except ToVL), and PQs were abandoned by most 6 months after release. I would like to see many PvE elements return, but WAR was always known for the PvP/RvR, and so those are the top priorities of RoR.

samurro wrote:Fourth, how is the project scheduled, are there some kind of milestones? For me as a new player its unclear why there is only tier 1 and 2 available. Because many things in tier 1 don't work, even most basic stuff like public quests etc. So the actual direction is not really clear and I would love to hear more about the people in charge, what their vision of this project is.

All of the devs are volunteers, and we all (probably) have day jobs, and significant others/children. Nobody gets paid to do this. Development happens as fast as it can, within the limitations of the team.

As to why things don't work - you have to understand that not a single line of server code was developed by Mythic. Volunteers sniffed out packets of data sent between the official servers and the game client, and the entire RoR server code had to be reverse-engineered from these packets. Every sent packet has bytes of data that we still haven't discovered a purpose for, because the only context we have for translating it is other data in the packet. The client itself is little more than a bundle of art assets and code to render them, no game logic is handled there.

So essentially, many features had to be rewritten from the ground up. The entire database had to be designed around what data the devs thought it might contain. Some things, like PQs, require individual scripts written to work right, and are more trouble than they're worth. You think they're a basic feature? The Burning Windmill, the second Order PQ, requires a script in stage 2 for the domes around the zealot NPC to destroy with a fancy animation. Those zealots need a script for each of them to run to the center of the windmill. The 3rd stage boss needs a script to walk around and shout some dialogue.

And if we spent the 2-3 hours getting it to work and testing it, someone will inevitably (and rightfully) complain, "Why are you wasting time on a PQ that gives **** rewards, nobody ever does, and is only in Chapter 2, when my Obliterator set gear hasn't been available from the vendor for months, and doesn't have working set bonuses?"

Imagine trying to build a raft in the middle of the ocean, from the ruins of a sunken ship. Your only instructions come from your friend shouting the names of individual pieces floating on the surface of the water. This is what we're working with.

samurro wrote:
Second I would like to know how the team behind this project thinks of its legality, don't you guys fear that this project could become "succesfull" to some degree so it catches the attention of the "right owners"? The option to download the client on this site tells me that it is not a high priority to stay away from illegality for the team behind this project?
Nothing illegal going on here. We've caught quite a bit of attention already.

Third, what are the actual goals of the development. As I played just for a few hours yet I've stumbled upon things which are different than they were on live servers, some of them on purpose, some because they are "bugged". Is the RoR-Team trying to just recreate what Mythic tried to achieve, or is there something more? Like altering the actual experience?
Most changes are discussed publicly and debated around the community. Otherwise we're aiming to reach a functional game from end-to-end. Starting with RvR as the primary focus. PvE/Dungeons would be much later as they involve significant scripting work.

Fourth, how is the project scheduled, are there some kind of milestones? For me as a new player its unclear why there is only tier 1 and 2 available. Because many things in tier 1 don't work, even most basic stuff like public quests etc. So the actual direction is not really clear and I would love to hear more about the people in charge, what their vision of this project is.
There isn't a schedule. Low importance items in T1 probably don't have a dev dedicated to them for reasons. Either the packets were too difficult to figure out, or the work/reward ratio was too low to bother. Currently if it's not contributing to RvR, it's not being given a ton of development time or consideration.

Just a GM here, this is largely what I've gathered in the past couple of months. If you want to help, there's a section of the forums dedicated to applications.

Genisaurus wrote:I am fairly new to the dev team, and so while I can't speak officially, I can speak more officially than most.

samurro wrote:Second I would like to know how the team behind this project thinks of its legality, don't you guys fear that this project could become "succesfull" to some degree so it catches the attention of the "right owners"? The option to download the client on this site tells me that it is not a high priority to stay away from illegality for the team behind this project?

It's legal in the same sense that Super Nintendo emulators and ROMs are legal. It's legal in the same sense that modifying your X-Box to play pirated games is legal. Which is to say, in the absolute strictest sense, it is not entirely legal, but nobody is going to come after us because it would be worse PR than letting us continue to generate interest in their IP for free. That being said, Nobody is generating any profit off of RoR - in fact, the whole game is provided at the personal expense of management. So long as we continue to do so, there is minimal chance of intervention on behalf of EA or GW.

samurro wrote:Third, what are the actual goals of the development. As I played just for a few hours yet I've stumbled upon things which are different than they were on live servers, some of them on purpose, some because they are "bugged". Is the RoR-Team trying to just recreate what Mythic tried to achieve, or is there something more? Like altering the actual experience?

The first order of business is to get the RvR system working and fully functional through T4. From there, we can branch out into other things. PvE content is a low priority, because it was never a popular aspect of WAR/Live. Dungeons were almost never run (except ToVL), and PQs were abandoned by most 6 months after release. I would like to see many PvE elements return, but WAR was always known for the PvP/RvR, and so those are the top priorities of RoR.

samurro wrote:Fourth, how is the project scheduled, are there some kind of milestones? For me as a new player its unclear why there is only tier 1 and 2 available. Because many things in tier 1 don't work, even most basic stuff like public quests etc. So the actual direction is not really clear and I would love to hear more about the people in charge, what their vision of this project is.

All of the devs are volunteers, and we all (probably) have day jobs, and significant others/children. Nobody gets paid to do this. Development happens as fast as it can, within the limitations of the team.

As to why things don't work - you have to understand that not a single line of server code was developed by Mythic. Volunteers sniffed out packets of data sent between the official servers and the game client, and the entire RoR server code had to be reverse-engineered from these packets. Every sent packet has bytes of data that we still haven't discovered a purpose for, because the only context we have for translating it is other data in the packet. The client itself is little more than a bundle of art assets and code to render them, no game logic is handled there.

So essentially, many features had to be rewritten from the ground up. The entire database had to be designed around what data the devs thought it might contain. Some things, like PQs, require individual scripts written to work right, and are more trouble than they're worth. You think they're a basic feature? The Burning Windmill, the second Order PQ, requires a script in stage 2 for the domes around the zealot NPC to destroy with a fancy animation. Those zealots need a script for each of them to run to the center of the windmill. The 3rd stage boss needs a script to walk around and shout some dialogue.

And if we spent the 2-3 hours getting it to work and testing it, someone will inevitably (and rightfully) complain, "Why are you wasting time on a PQ that gives **** rewards, nobody ever does, and is only in Chapter 2, when my Obliterator set gear hasn't been available from the vendor for months, and doesn't have working set bonuses?"

Imagine trying to build a raft in the middle of the ocean, from the ruins of a sunken ship. Your only instructions come from your friend shouting the names of individual pieces floating on the surface of the water. This is what we're working with.

Hmmmm PVE LV / TOVL / Tomb / all Dungeons Sentinel - Dark promise Set were the most run .