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Tometactics turned into siege-tactics
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2026 6:43 am
by wonshot
Hello,
Pvp-tactic slots got removed as a leftover from AoR to RoR. But the tome-tactic slot is still empty and open.
I have previously made suggestions for turning this into a Main-stat slot (Balistic, Int, Str, Toughness, Willpower) and then letting the 4 normal tactic slots stay open for build defining utility tactics to create builds & playstyles.
However an other suggestion could be, to attempt to spiece up keep-sieges with this empty "tome-tactic" slot.
As an example it could be any of the following, or something else depending on what direction the RvR dev team want the game to go
--
Tank siegetactic options:
- When you die to oil you get ressed where you died and spawn with M3 value of morale and are now immune to oil damage for the following 10seconds
Basicly this one is a tactic tanks could slot to bait coordinated oils and not get as punished from succesfully baiting oil and getting interrupted on deflect
- Your Tank-Archtype Bulwark ability now works on doors below 50% hp and will heal it for 5% extra per box turned in at your warcamp, functional up to 55% doorhealth
Adds a yoyo effect to defenders can once again do sortie pushes even if the door falls below 50% and they can repair it up and make moves with the door
DPS siegetactic options:
- 1% of your damage done to a gate within 5ft of a keepdoor will damage a door
This create momentum and tempo but at the high risk of having a super big stack of attackers under the oil
- If you die within 30ft of an inside posterndoor on the bottomfloor you will get ressurected inside the broken outerdoor area
Giving postern pushers a way back to make this manuver less punishing as theres no line of sight to ress, often times
Healer siegetactic options:
- Ressurect now doesnt go on cooldown if you ress an ally who died to oil damage
Speeds up the recovering pase and throws a wrench in how predictable the M4 vs Oil tempo is for an organized siege
- "Clense war engine" ability now has a 5minut cooldown. Can be used on allies within 150ft. Doesnt require line of sight and on 10sec castime drags the corpse of a dead groupmember to your feed
Mostly a thing for when players gets pulled into the broken open doors and dies without you being able to ress them, now that healer m4 got changed as a tool to do so
The experienced eye will recognize alot of the stalemate, or broken aspects for keep sieges are attempted to be tackled in this suggestion. I am not saying this suggestion is perfect, it is made to spark ideas create conversation of how to improve keepsieges and feed idea systems to the devs of which I would assume this one could be somewhat easier to take the old tometactic system code of the game, and do something siege related with it. If this core idea is deemed worth working on.
It could then also be expanded that you need to take X amount of keeps to unlock the Tactic-fragments to build and unlock these tactics if we wanted to re-use that system. Most of this should already be built and in the code(?)
Sieges can be dull, become scripted if both sides play it well and having both a defensive and offensive option in this suggestion I either tried to breake the stalemate script of Tank M4s vs baitoil or real oil, or give up with some solutions as to why pushes fail or players dont want to commit. For example by postern pushes being unsalvageable with no ressing LoS, or tanks dieing to a bait oil and then having to wait 3minuts without morale pump tactics to climb back to M4 for a real push, but then oil is up again.
Thanks for reading.
Re: Tometactics turned into siege-tactics
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2026 12:19 pm
by reyaloran
Normally I agree with you on a lot of ideas but these would be horrible for the game. Looking through the list of changes the core issue you seem to have with the current state of sieges is the power of oil but the changes you want to make here have some absolutely broken interactions to the point that using oil would be a detriment to the defense who need that tool to counterbalance the fact that they are outnumbered at least 1.4 to 1. For example, the tank change gives the tank m3 no matter the moral they were at before they died. So why would the attacking team not always push on door down while the defense does not have moral, die to oil, then get moral advantage over the defenders to m4 push before they can be ready for it? Or both healer tactics listed, speeding up reses sounds good at first but now you are reducing the amount of time the defenders can burn in a contested siege which only hurts the faction playing better while being out numbered, and the res guys pulled to bad spots removes a core tool both sides use to slowly drain the other faction's forces. While it sucks to be the guy who cant be ressed, from a macro perspective that drain is what allows a defense that could not win the outer door hold or an offense that is struggling to break a stalemate to win overall. Finally the DPS tactics do 2 things, speed up the door segment which can be fine for inner but makes getting to a siege much worse if you can make the outer faster and it makes post pushes less punishing despite that being the best opportunity a defense gets to break the siege in their favor.
Overall these changes would make sieges not worth it to try to defend as you would take away all of the macro play a defending realm gets to make the micro play of a few players less punishing for making a mistake. If these changes were to go live like this I suspect you would only see defenses in even number scenarios or even more likely it would be a race to whichever side can spawn ram first, let the cross realm players move to the attacker side, and free win the zone. The core issue of sieging isn't that sieging is necessarily boring, it's that 1: the zone does not matter anymore and 2: the defenders are too heavily punished for attempting to attack outside of oil windows. Give the defence more tools to harass during the raming sections and sieging would be more interesting for ~60% of a siege and give defenders more tools to make a retake of a keep lord before it dies more viable and it would fix almost every issue with sieges becoming boring.
Re: Tometactics turned into siege-tactics
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2026 1:50 pm
by Shogun4138
They should fo something with that tactic slot, even if it's for pve.
Re: Tometactics turned into siege-tactics
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2026 3:46 pm
by krumhur
wonshot wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 6:43 am
Hello,
Pvp-tactic slots got removed as a leftover from AoR to RoR. But the tome-tactic slot is still empty and open.
I have previously made suggestions for turning this into a Main-stat slot (Balistic, Int, Str, Toughness, Willpower) and then letting the 4 normal tactic slots stay open for build defining utility tactics to create builds & playstyles.
However an other suggestion could be, to attempt to spiece up keep-sieges with this empty "tome-tactic" slot.
As an example it could be any of the following, or something else depending on what direction the RvR dev team want the game to go
--
Tank siegetactic options:
- When you die to oil you get ressed where you died and spawn with M3 value of morale and are now immune to oil damage for the following 10seconds
Basicly this one is a tactic tanks could slot to bait coordinated oils and not get as punished from succesfully baiting oil and getting interrupted on deflect
- Your Tank-Archtype Bulwark ability now works on doors below 50% hp and will heal it for 5% extra per box turned in at your warcamp, functional up to 55% doorhealth
Adds a yoyo effect to defenders can once again do sortie pushes even if the door falls below 50% and they can repair it up and make moves with the door
DPS siegetactic options:
- 1% of your damage done to a gate within 5ft of a keepdoor will damage a door
This create momentum and tempo but at the high risk of having a super big stack of attackers under the oil
- If you die within 30ft of an inside posterndoor on the bottomfloor you will get ressurected inside the broken outerdoor area
Giving postern pushers a way back to make this manuver less punishing as theres no line of sight to ress, often times
Healer siegetactic options:
- Ressurect now doesnt go on cooldown if you ress an ally who died to oil damage
Speeds up the recovering pase and throws a wrench in how predictable the M4 vs Oil tempo is for an organized siege
- "Clense war engine" ability now has a 5minut cooldown. Can be used on allies within 150ft. Doesnt require line of sight and on 10sec castime drags the corpse of a dead groupmember to your feed
Mostly a thing for when players gets pulled into the broken open doors and dies without you being able to ress them, now that healer m4 got changed as a tool to do so
The experienced eye will recognize alot of the stalemate, or broken aspects for keep sieges are attempted to be tackled in this suggestion. I am not saying this suggestion is perfect, it is made to spark ideas create conversation of how to improve keepsieges and feed idea systems to the devs of which I would assume this one could be somewhat easier to take the old tometactic system code of the game, and do something siege related with it. If this core idea is deemed worth working on.
It could then also be expanded that you need to take X amount of keeps to unlock the Tactic-fragments to build and unlock these tactics if we wanted to re-use that system. Most of this should already be built and in the code(?)
Sieges can be dull, become scripted if both sides play it well and having both a defensive and offensive option in this suggestion I either tried to breake the stalemate script of Tank M4s vs baitoil or real oil, or give up with some solutions as to why pushes fail or players dont want to commit. For example by postern pushes being unsalvageable with no ressing LoS, or tanks dieing to a bait oil and then having to wait 3minuts without morale pump tactics to climb back to M4 for a real push, but then oil is up again.
Thanks for reading.
As we were discussing today during the stream on twitch, the lack of additional mechanics like destroyable walls or wall climbing (ideas taken from DAoC), or other ways to get inside keep other than through doors (main or postern), makes attacking a keep a rather predictable activity. The oil is possibly the main culprit: when in the hands of a organised and disciplined warband, it becomes far more deadly than anything else, to the point where the whole siege gameplay revolves around its timer, it's placement, it's baiting and so on.
Also, orcapults are in game, they could work as a solution, but I think they are restricted to fortresses? Also, their availability is very limited I think, I've seen them as a reward only from the fortress capture quest which make them a rare thing.
Stuff like that could make sieging more engaging and less predictable, more about fighting than funneling, waiting for M4/oil etc.
Re: Tometactics turned into siege-tactics
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2026 4:07 pm
by wonshot
reyaloran wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 12:19 pm
Normally I agree with you on a lot of ideas but these would be horrible for the game. Looking through the list of changes the core issue you seem to have with the current state of sieges is the power of oil but the changes you want to make here have some absolutely broken interactions to the point that using oil would be a detriment to the defense who need that tool to counterbalance the fact that they are outnumbered at least 1.4 to 1. For example, the tank change gives the tank m3 no matter the moral they were at before they died. So why would the attacking team not always push on door down while the defense does not have moral, die to oil, then get moral advantage over the defenders to m4 push before they can be ready for it? Or both healer tactics listed, speeding up reses sounds good at first but now you are reducing the amount of time the defenders can burn in a contested siege which only hurts the faction playing better while being out numbered, and the res guys pulled to bad spots removes a core tool both sides use to slowly drain the other faction's forces. While it sucks to be the guy who cant be ressed, from a macro perspective that drain is what allows a defense that could not win the outer door hold or an offense that is struggling to break a stalemate to win overall. Finally the DPS tactics do 2 things, speed up the door segment which can be fine for inner but makes getting to a siege much worse if you can make the outer faster and it makes post pushes less punishing despite that being the best opportunity a defense gets to break the siege in their favor.
Overall these changes would make sieges not worth it to try to defend as you would take away all of the macro play a defending realm gets to make the micro play of a few players less punishing for making a mistake. If these changes were to go live like this I suspect you would only see defenses in even number scenarios or even more likely it would be a race to whichever side can spawn ram first, let the cross realm players move to the attacker side, and free win the zone. The core issue of sieging isn't that sieging is necessarily boring, it's that 1: the zone does not matter anymore and 2: the defenders are too heavily punished for attempting to attack outside of oil windows. Give the defence more tools to harass during the raming sections and sieging would be more interesting for ~60% of a siege and give defenders more tools to make a retake of a keep lord before it dies more viable and it would fix almost every issue with sieges becoming boring.
Absolutely nothing wrong with disagreements, and I'll be the first to mention that the suggested tactics are not really a plug and play suggestions. I've tried those in the past, nothing came of it. So this one, is more of a
"hey heres a suggestions for tometactics that doesnt require you guys to overhaul rvr and no need for world editing. Maybe this can inspire someone, somewhere, so something finally happends"
I am, correctly seen, conflicted how I feel about oil.
To me, oil is too scripted as it is. It takes a tank without morale pump 3 min. to build M4. Which is the default time on oil respawning, so fake pushing to force oils are pretty much one of the only tools in a very hard 3star keep. Maybe 3star keeps need to be this difficult (?)
But if you compare it to a fort, then the attackers have 3 avenues to attempt to spread the criticalmass from a funnel out, main/postern/3rd. and you have line of sight for pulls, chipdmg pressure or recovering at all three.
For normal keeps, they can legit be boiled down to four tanks playing a minigame of ramming, everyone on the attacking side is then glorified guarddogs to prevent the attackers coming out killing the ram, or the attackers are blocking postern trying to create a numbers advantage. All of this with the symbiosis of Oil cd of 3min. vs Tank M4s for an attacking push.
I guess, what I was hoping to achive here, was to break how scripted this Tank M4 vs Oil actually is. Allowing damagedealers to hit the door at a VERY mitigated rate would add more varience, more people would be active. But honestly, at this point I am beyond desperate for seeing the RvR dev team showing ANY will to attempt to give RvR some improvements. The Random events clearly failed so far, to spice rvr up. And the BO buffs half a year ago were good, but needs followup. Which atm isnt happening.
So Tometactics were my suggestion. Shurg
Re: Tometactics turned into siege-tactics
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2026 2:36 pm
by Panzer80
I think that would make sieges a huge pain. I'd like tome tactic slots to be filled with the racial tactic, and these tactics need to be overhauled and consolidated so that each is useful in different ways. Each class should get their free racial tactic auto slotted in slot 5.