Return of Reckoning

Guess we are talking about crit now :^)

Original post:

Jaycub wrote:When a critical hit is scored on an player does toughness reduce the base damage (then critical damage is calculated), or is it applied to the critical damage as a whole?

The damage against Tgh is calculated at first:

((<tooltip> + <dps contribution>)+(<stat coefficient>*(<offensive stat>+<power stat>)/5))*(1+<damage bonus>)*(1-<damage reduction>)-(<stat coefficient>*(<toughness>+fortitude>)/5) = <damage>


Then the crit chance is checked up (and eventually calculated):

<damage>*(1+((0.5+<crit damage bonus>)*(1-<crit damage reduction>))) = <crit damage>


The last step is lowering calculated damage (or critical damage) by fragment given by armor or magic resistances.

<damage> OR <crit damage> * (1-<mitigation from armour or resistances>) = <final damage>

CarlistRieekan wrote: wall O' stats

..also fun at parties




Srsly though good mechanics into, thx

Genius, so in theory... The ultimate question would be what is more effective.

Crit damage vs crit chance vs magic/melee/ranged power. Would perhaps stacking one of these or a mix of two then be plausible?

feefy1 wrote:Genius, so in theory... The ultimate question would be what is more effective.

Crit damage vs crit chance vs magic/melee/ranged power. Would perhaps stacking one of these or a mix of two then be plausible?

Crit damage has always been king, because you eventually hit a a ceiling w/ just flat power or secondary stats like weapon skill. And crit chance isn't hard to come by.

Problem is some classes have acess to class mechanics and tactics which change the base crit multiplier from 150% to 200% or 250%, which mean for them stacking crit is either twice or three times as effective as other classes who do not. Yet the game does not seem to discriminate against those classes ability to stack crit at all, its the same on gear/weapons, from RR tree, etc... Hell even some of those classes that have the 50% tactic have access to some of the best criti chance tactics in the game.

Not to mention when you have something like a knight in the party dishing out 20% increased crit chance that those classes get double+ what those who don't not get in terms of DPS increase.

Jaycub wrote:

feefy1 wrote:Genius, so in theory... The ultimate question would be what is more effective.

Crit damage vs crit chance vs magic/melee/ranged power. Would perhaps stacking one of these or a mix of two then be plausible?

Crit damage has always been king, because you eventually hit a a ceiling w/ just flat power or secondary stats like weapon skill. And crit chance isn't hard to come by.

Problem is some classes have acess to class mechanics and tactics which change the base crit multiplier from 150% to 200% or 250%, which mean for them stacking crit is either twice or three times as effective as other classes who do not. Yet the game does not seem to discriminate against those classes ability to stack crit at all, its the same on gear/weapons, from RR tree, etc... Hell even some of those classes that have the 50% tactic have access to some of the best criti chance tactics in the game.

Not to mention when you have something like a knight in the party dishing out 20% increased crit chance that those classes get double+ what those who don't not get in terms of DPS increase.

Great insight! Now all we need to wait is on crit power itemized gearsets.
Would it help to list the current tactics that amplify crit damage modifiers by each class so that others are aware?

the 50% increased critical damage tactic that some classes get can be translated into "0.5% increased damage per 1% of crit"

When we look at how much crit a person can stack, you look at knight who can give people 20% crit... that's 10% increased damage alone from an a completely outside source, you have crit you can stack from tactics, gear, the RR points, your targets ini, etc... you can easily see this tactic scaling up to ~20-30% increased damage.

You look at other tactics that some classes have like "trench fighting" for engineer. You only get 15% increased damage, and there is a conditional aspect. You have to essentially turn yourself into a pseudo MDPS to get the bonus. Then there is stuff like flanking that has similar increased damage bonus with conditionals.

And there is also the fact that 50% increased critical damage can translate into burst damage, something the 15% increased damage tactics etc... cannot do. And in this game burst is everything, you need to kill something before it can be healed up, before it can detaunt you, before it has a tank peel/gaurd for it. Otherwise you are screwed and have completely wasted all you time. Which is why melee trains are so popular.

The problem is that burst is so central to the games meta, CC was gutted so "support" roles that the engineer/magus played were killed off, and crit damage becomes king. There is no real attrition in this game, a magus can do 1 million dps in an SC and really not make a **** of difference because it can be group healed through, but a Sorc dealing just 10k damage in a few seconds to a single target can turn the fight around instantly. And the only way to really do that is via crit multiplier.

Jaycub wrote:the 50% increased critical damage tactic that some classes get can be translated into "0.5% increased damage per 1% of crit"

When we look at how much crit a person can stack, you look at knight who can give people 20% crit... that's 10% increased damage alone from an a completely outside source, you have crit you can stack from tactics, gear, the RR points, your targets ini, etc... you can easily see this tactic scaling up to ~20-30% increased damage.

You look at other tactics that some classes have like "trench fighting" for engineer. You only get 15% increased damage, and there is a conditional aspect. You have to essentially turn yourself into a pseudo MDPS to get the bonus. Then there is stuff like flanking that has similar increased damage bonus with conditionals.

And there is also the fact that 50% increased critical damage can translate into burst damage, something the 15% increased damage tactics etc... cannot do. And in this game burst is everything, you need to kill something before it can be healed up, before it can detaunt you, before it has a tank peel/gaurd for it. Otherwise you are screwed and have completely wasted all you time. Which is why melee trains are so popular.

The problem is that burst is so central to the games meta, CC was gutted so "support" roles that the engineer/magus played were killed off, and crit damage becomes king. There is no real attrition in this game, a magus can do 1 million dps in an SC and really not make a **** of difference because it can be group healed through, but a Sorc dealing just 10k damage in a few seconds to a single target can turn the fight around instantly. And the only way to really do that is via crit multiplier.

This changes at higher rr/gear. Magi were able to provide very nice burst damage with a very simple rotation (BoC ). Currently they are just inefficient dot machines with decent cc.

Jaycub wrote:the 50% increased critical damage tactic that some classes get can be translated into "0.5% increased damage per 1% of crit"

When we look at how much crit a person can stack, you look at knight who can give people 20% crit... that's 10% increased damage alone from an a completely outside source, you have crit you can stack from tactics, gear, the RR points, your targets ini, etc... you can easily see this tactic scaling up to ~20-30% increased damage.

You look at other tactics that some classes have like "trench fighting" for engineer. You only get 15% increased damage, and there is a conditional aspect. You have to essentially turn yourself into a pseudo MDPS to get the bonus. Then there is stuff like flanking that has similar increased damage bonus with conditionals.

And there is also the fact that 50% increased critical damage can translate into burst damage, something the 15% increased damage tactics etc... cannot do. And in this game burst is everything, you need to kill something before it can be healed up, before it can detaunt you, before it has a tank peel/gaurd for it. Otherwise you are screwed and have completely wasted all you time. Which is why melee trains are so popular.

The problem is that burst is so central to the games meta, CC was gutted so "support" roles that the engineer/magus played were killed off, and crit damage becomes king. There is no real attrition in this game, a magus can do 1 million dps in an SC and really not make a **** of difference because it can be group healed through, but a Sorc dealing just 10k damage in a few seconds to a single target can turn the fight around instantly. And the only way to really do that is via crit multiplier.

Except fact,that engi has another 20% dmg thx to placing turret. Combined to trench fightinhg its 35% increased dmg from any angle. Engineers can put huge preasure for party or whole wb if he has his dots up,lighting rod +morale 2 and spaming his frontal AOE.
True is,that engi is far from burst of BW,SW or sorc,but his utility,cc and AOE cannot be ignored on battlefield.
I would not say,that 1 mil dmg in scenario is worthles. If healers are forced to spam group heals,they cannot focus on singletarget healing and singletarget dps has his job much easier.

^ the 20% damage increase requires for you to be very close to your turret/pet, which honestly doesn't happen in open field/sc's (players are constantly moving). The only time it works is when they're aoeing through the wall at keeps, that + 15% dmg tactic + 100% m2 = major wreckage on warbands (especially if there are multiple eng's around).

The static pet damage increase becomes somewhat more useful once we have access to crit gear/rr's/more mastery points. I do agree that dot damage is not "worthless" as it keeps healers busy with group heals which is enough to distract them from healing players outside of their group.